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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #121 Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:31 am 
Tengen
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My previous move was simply a way of getting an extra stone in place for the eventual fight in the upper right. It is a very open area, and enclosing territory is difficult, so I am not going to try to continue there right now.

One of the problems that make a fight difficult over there are moves like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . X O . X . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O X . . . . O . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . O O . . . . . W . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . O X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X X O , . O . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O . . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

They threaten to connect southward, eastward, and westward. While I am addressing those issues, my own eastern side group becomes isolated.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . X O . X . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X . . . . . . 5 . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . O X . O 1 . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X X O , . O . 2 O , . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O . . . 6 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My current move, while slow, is multi-purpose.
1) It frees my upper right stones to concentrate solely on any battle up there, without the necessity of saving their southern brethern.
2) It may support an invasion of his newly acquired lower right corner territory with moves like 'a'.
3) It allows moves like 'b' to invade his potential territory.
4) And lastly, it improves my yose position by about 10 points.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . X O . X . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . O X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X X O , . O . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O . . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . . . . b . . B . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . O . . O a . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O a . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #122 Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:25 am 
Honinbo

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I predict R17 now.

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be immersed

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #123 Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:03 am 
Honinbo

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Kirby wrote:
I predict R17 now.


Followed by Black R-18?

Edit: Unhidden.

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At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


Last edited by Bill Spight on Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #124 Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:11 am 
Lives in sente
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M3 instead ?

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The really most difficult Go problem ever: http://igohatsuyoron120.de/index.htm
Igo Hatsuyoron #120 (still unresolved by professionals, maybe solved by four amateurs, really solved by KataGo)

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #125 Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:18 am 
Honinbo

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Bill Spight wrote:
Kirby wrote:
I predict R17 now.


Followed by Black R-18?


Then go on an adventure with Q17. I don't know if it absolutely works, but I'd feel more comfortable as white than as black if R18 is played. Black should be pretty sure to kill if he plays R18 or else there's more to lose.

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #126 Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:37 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 150
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Universal go server handle: tegais
The position is complicate, I will take some time.

Like this Black has 10 points, White has 13 points.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . X O . X . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . O X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X X O , . O . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O . . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 o o o o . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . 7 5 4 o O o o . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X x x x X 2 o o o o |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . x x x 3 1 O . . o |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . x x x x . . . . o |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Difficult to say what is the best reply for Black but if he decides to sacrifice his stone it will 27 for White and 0 for Black. So the value will be 24 point gote. In fact it should be less so if there are moves bigger than 24 poins I should play them first.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . X O . X . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . O X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X X O , . O . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O . . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . o o o . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . o o O o o o |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . 1 o X o o o o o |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . o o O o o o |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . o o o o o o |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #127 Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:25 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 150
Location: Russia, Krasnoyarsk, (GMT+07:00)
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KGS: 2k
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Universal go server handle: tegais
If Black allows White to live in the corner White will have 4 points and Black's loss will be 15 points so the value is 19 points gote for both.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 3 7 . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . O . . . . X 2 1 . 5 |
$$ | . O . O . . . . X O . X . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X O . . . . . . X 4 . |
$$ | . O . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . O X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X X O , . O . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O . . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


However Black can resist. For example
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . O . . . . X 3 1 . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . X O . X . . 6 5 X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X O . . . . . 7 X . . |
$$ | . O . . O X . . . . O . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . O X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X X O , . O . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O . . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'am not sure I can live here. May be it is a good idea to play R17 and see the response.

Next move that looks big is N14. It makes R17 much easier. It also gives the followup at P13 and N17 and 4 marked point in the center. The followup at P13 gives another 8 points in gote. But if Black plays N14 himself he can't get points because of the hole at Q12.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . X O . X . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O X . . . . O . 1 . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . O O o o . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X . . . o . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . o O X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X X O , . O . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O . . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So it is probably better for Black to start from Q12 and after N14 O15 he will have additional 6 points
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . X O . X . 7 x x X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X O . . 6 3 x x X . . |
$$ | . O . . O X . . . . O . 2 4 5 x . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . O O o o . . . . x . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X . . . o . . X . 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . o O X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X X O , . O . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O . . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So N14 is about 10 points sente + N17 value which is difficult to count but not that big because even without N14 White has the slide at M18.

B3 is 20 points gote in my count but it can change depending on the M3 outcome.

So the plan is to play R17 as a probe. If Black answers at Q17 then play at M3 and hope that I can take either 24 points in gote or retain sente. If Black tries to kill then N14 or other move in that direction.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . O . . . . X . 8 . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . X O . X . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X . . . . . . 5 . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . O X . O 1 . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X X O , . O . 2 O , . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O . . . 6 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #128 Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:42 pm 
Tengen
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As I have mentioned in these comments during the past month, when white hanes as he just did, I have two options: To let him live small in the corner, or to slide under him and force him into the center where life is hard.

My choice, of course, rests on my opinion of his chances. I don't want to give him an easy life in my corner. I want to kill him in the center if I have the resources to do it.
Over the past few weeks I have put a lot of time into analyzing this, and I've come to the conclusion that I needed one more stone. I believe that I played that stone at move 75.
He obviously believes that I cannot kill him. Else he would be saving this for a ko threat.

So we are going to find out who is right. If he is, he probably wins easily. If he plays a lot of stones while trying and fails, then I win. If he tries just a stone or two and concludes that he can't live, then the game is still undecided.

However, there is one other possibility: he is bluffing, and he has analyzed as deeply as I and knows that he can't live in the center, but he hopes that I don't know for sure, so he plays as if he believes that he can live there, and hopes that I will chicken out and give him a small life in the corner.
If he is trying that, I'm calling his bluff. :rambo:



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . O . . . . X . 8 . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . X O . X . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X . . . . . . 5 . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . O X . O 1 . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X X O , . O . 2 O , . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O . . . 6 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #129 Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:18 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 150
Location: Russia, Krasnoyarsk, (GMT+07:00)
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 16
KGS: 2k
IGS: 4k
DGS: 3d
OGS: 3d
Universal go server handle: tegais
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . O . . . . X . 8 . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . X O . X . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O X . . . . O . 0 . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X . . . . . . 5 . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . O X . O 1 . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X X O , . O . 2 O , . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O . . . 6 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #130 Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:44 pm 
Gosei
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That tennuki looks no good to me. Capture the corner and be happy :)

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #131 Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:05 am 
Tengen
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He was bluffing! :lol:

Now the goal is to figure out a move to maximize territory in this corner. I'd like to retain the possibility of pushing westward, but I think that over-extends me, so I must assume that he comes out of this with sente.

He will probably play M3 or M2, or a preparatory move in that general area. I'll lose some of my loosely encircled territory there. If I can come out of that with sente, I'm in good shape.

There are too many ill-defined borders right now, so it is hard to estimate territory, but it is looking about even. I suspect that the player who goes into yose with sente will win this.

There are two possible exceptions to that. There is an outside possibility that he might be able to make a living group on the lower side. If so, he wins easily.
There is also the equally slim possibility that I might be able to invade the lower right. In that case, I win.

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #132 Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:12 pm 
Tengen
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P15.

( I don't have good wifi right now )

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #133 Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:47 pm 
Lives with ko

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Universal go server handle: tegais
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . X O . X . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X O . . . . 1 . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O X . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . O X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X X O , . O . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O . . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . 2 . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is a complicate invasion. I can't read it out. But I gave Black too many points at the upper right and probably can't win with easy moves. I hope my O6 stone will help more than Black's K6 stone.

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #134 Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:56 pm 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . X O . X . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X O . . . . 1 . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O X . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . O X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X X O , . O . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O . . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . 3 X . . . . . . X . 2 . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This move and B10 are miai. He has to answer. If I get both, his group dies.

I'm going to get the one that helps me most. And I'm going to do it while I get to choose which one I get, rather than waiting until he might get to choose.

There are variations in which the fight around M3/O3 boils westward and invades my territory on the lower side. I have a much better chance of killing those invaders if all of my surrounding stones are unequivocally alive. There are variations in which he might get as far west as E1 :o, and I have to stay alive in the corner while I kill the invaders.

Since I may need eye space in the lower left corner, I'm going to take my choice of miai while I have that choice. Then I'll do something about the M3/O3 fight.

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #135 Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:31 pm 
Honinbo

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@Kirby

I'll unhide #123 if you unhide #122. :)

_________________
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At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #136 Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:24 pm 
Honinbo

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Bill Spight wrote:
@Kirby

I'll unhide #123 if you unhide #122. :)


I unhid it!

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be immersed

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #137 Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:59 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 150
Location: Russia, Krasnoyarsk, (GMT+07:00)
Liked others: 1
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KGS: 2k
IGS: 4k
DGS: 3d
OGS: 3d
Universal go server handle: tegais
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . X O . X . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X O . . . . 1 . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O X . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . O X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X X O , . O . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O . . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . 3 X . . . . . . X . 2 . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I want to settle the situation here. So I consider contact plays K2 and K4.

I don't like this simple continuation
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . X O . X . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X O . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O X . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . O X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X X O , . O . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O . . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . 2 1 3 . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . 4 X . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The cut :w3: and sacrifice is probably better but looks a little bit risky.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . X O . X . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X O . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O X . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . O X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X X O , . O . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O . . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . 2 1 . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . 4 3 X . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 6 . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This looks playable and simple.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . X O . X . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X O . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O X . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . O X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X X O , . O . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O . . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . 4 . X . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 1 3 . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If Black plays from the other side White becomes stronger as intended and can tenuki.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . X O . X . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X O . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O X . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . O X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X X O , . O . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O . . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . 8 5 . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . 6 X 3 O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 4 1 2 7 . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #138 Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:56 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 5459
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1044
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Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . X O . X . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X O . . . . 1 . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O X . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . O X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X X O , . O . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O . . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . 3 X . . . . . . X . 2 . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 4 . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Life is busy here. Comments later.

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #139 Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:00 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 150
Location: Russia, Krasnoyarsk, (GMT+07:00)
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 16
KGS: 2k
IGS: 4k
DGS: 3d
OGS: 3d
Universal go server handle: tegais
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . X O . X . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X O . . . . 1 . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O X . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . O X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X X O , . O . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O . . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . 3 X . . . . . . X . 2 . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 4 6 . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS
Post #140 Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:57 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 5459
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1044
Was liked: 1430
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . X O . X . . . , X O . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . X O . . . . 1 . X . . |
$$ | . O . . O X . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . O X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . X X O , . O . O O , . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O . . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . 3 X . . . . . 7 X . 2 . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 4 6 . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


OK, I admit it: I chickened out. A player who was really sure of his plans and his reading would have tenukied on one of the last two moves. I think my reading is good, but I'm not absolutely sure.
If I stick to conservative moves, I think that I can stabilize the situation on the lower side, and come out of it with sente.

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