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#264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=13687 |
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Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:55 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
White does not raise the temperature in the upper center, so I can tenuki. I wanted to get this move in for two reasons: 1) There may be a ladder or a running group coming southeast out of the center, and 2) It expands my lower group out into the center a bit. If I get O3 before he plays in the lower right, it might get big. I think that he has to reply, otherwise I kill him. |
Author: | TegaiS [ Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:36 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
C7 is big (about 30 points). Adding a stone to the running fight is urgent. Urgent before big. However it is very difficult to decide on a specific move. J13 looks dangerous but I couldn't find another move that could put enough pressure on black. The problem is the cut at L16. If I want to attack I can't sacrifice the K16 stone. At least J13 defends against the cut indirectly
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Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:01 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
He just made the center more urgent. If I tenuki to take profit in the lower left, one more move by him makes the center his. I can't push at K15 right now. His most recent move limits my ability to extend away from that fight. But having F15 reinstates the threat to play K15.
I like my options here: A) I can push through at K15. B) I can try to attack his upper left corner with D14 C) I can kill his lower left corner He can't stop all of them And if things get really hairy, I can probably live on the upper side with 'd' and/or run with 'e'. FWIW, I did consider G15, because it is tactically more solid:
...but it is smaller and more likely to leave me with a heavy group. Staying light may matter a lot here. |
Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:34 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
@ observers, particularly beginners: I present a sideline here, so that you all can appreciate the subtleties of judgement that must be made in this position. ( I'm not saying that TegaiS and I make these judgements correctly, merely that the circumstances compel us to try. ) The toe bone is connected to the footbone which is connected to...etc. There are variations in the upper right in which black goes to the mattresses, not allowing white space for two eyes, thereby forcing white to seek life in the center or die trying. I haven't memorized the variations, I only recall the general idea. I suspect that my opponent has memorized them - I can't imagine him playing this way otherwise. So if he has already shown this, please pardon me for the redundancy. It starts like this, with black 2 and 4 fighting for eye space in the corner:
If black has some additional stones in the area - here arbitrarily placed at the circled spots - white dies. So white must be careful about becoming too heavy in the center, or those circled stones - or some similarly placed black stones - will be played in sente attacking the center, and will later turn around and participate in killing his invasion in the upper right. The converse of all of this is that white is waiting for the board to stabilize a bit so that he can play in the corner, leaving black with the unpleasant choice between letting white have the corner or run to friends in the center. It follows, therefore, that black wants to keep the white stones in the center weak or at least of uncertain status. A particular action toward this goal is playing K15. As long as black threatens to do that, the white invader at S16 is frozen. In other words, the black stone that I just played at F15 affects the white stone at S16. |
Author: | EdLee [ Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:47 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Quote: It starts like this, with black 2 and 4 fighting for eye space in the corner: The above fight can quickly become very complicated.
Not easy for beginners. Also, seems unlikely B had it in mind.
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Author: | TegaiS [ Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:02 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
The cut works so I can't attack and go back to defense.
Probably was a mistake. It helps my weak stones a little but now black can play D15. |
Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:19 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
This would be huge for white:
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Author: | The Intrepid [ Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:15 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
Fun game! |
Author: | TegaiS [ Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:18 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
I can't predict Joaz at all. The local situations in that game are so complicate that I can't read them to any satisfactory extent. The cut makes it even more complicate so I can hope that my opponent will not be able to read it out too. I can only see that the ladder is in white's favour. After this the san-san invasion looks scary. And even if it doesn't work white corner looks miserably.
Here Black has D18. But my intuition says that Black has to care about and first. Black also has the loose ladder starting at F13. It doesn't work immediately but B15 seems to be the ladder breaker. Still I think this is better than the previous diagram.
The other loose laddder also doesn't work.
Trigger:
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Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:56 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
Well... my opponent certainly does not lack courage. I have to accept his trigger and push through at 27. He then will complete the cut at 28. My best play then is probably 29, and B16 is the shape move for both of us. He will almost certainly take it. Trigger accepted.
If I try something like this, one of my groups dies.
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Author: | TegaiS [ Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:11 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
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Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:41 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
Once I play move 31 at F13, then the next handful of moves is forced. I'm including triggers so that I don't bore either opponent or observers.
Trigger: ( I'll play all or as much of this sequence as you wish)
@observers: Life has been busy lately, and the time crunch is not helped by analyzing for hours. I'll post more on move 31 later. For right now, I'll mention that all of this makes sense if you keep in mind that black cannot allow white to play F14 in sente. Black has to restrict white's liberties, otherwise this happens:
In a day or two I hope to get back to the alternatives to move 31. |
Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:54 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
Secondary triggers - if you play up to move 36, I'll play 37 as shown, then there are two triggers for the only two reasonable plays at move 38:
@observers: My goal here is to maintain the outside wall. He can have a big corner, but I'm going to have lots of influence and lots of sente plays. As an example, if he chooses the first trigger - which I think is best for him - I'll finish the sequence with the circled stone. Then I'm all connected, and I'm looking at 'a', 'b', 'c', and 'd'.
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Author: | TegaiS [ Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:33 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
Now the corner is safe. Also Black can't perfectly defend all of his cutting points so you can't say that the corner doesn't participate in the game anymore. Of course Black got his own pluses. White center stones became weaker. The left side is divided in two separate groups. Something like E9 surrounds the lower left group though not perfectly either. |
Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:14 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
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Author: | TegaiS [ Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:13 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
If Black plays J11 it will be too good for him.
Added two prisoners from move 40. |
Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:44 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
This may take another day or two. The position is complex. ( And also, I'm a political junkie ) |
Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:55 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
Deciding on this move took a lot of work. The position is complex, and many moves are not what they appear to be at first glance. I'm still not at all sure that I chose the best move, but I think that I at least avoided the worst of the self-sabotaging moves.
There are a handful of hot spots on the board. A) A black move at 'a' is a strong attack on white's central group. It is also a good defensive move for white. However, it is oddly ineffective for either of us to play there. If I play it, he replies with and then he is threatening
And is too far away from the corner to quash the aji of S16. If he does it first, it doesn't improve his chances in the corner. Indeed, it might provoke something like P15 from me:
...which IS enough to settle the corner in my favor:
B) By my count, the first move in the upper right corner is worth about 20 points. But despite the superficial apppeal of a move of that size, neither of us is going to play it soon. If he tries it right now, I probably have to concede the corner. But it is gote for him, and the consequent outside strength that I get deducts a lot from his profits. I come away with sente and proceed to take a good chunk on the upper side. His net profit is nowhere near 20 points, and may even be negative.
From my point of view, if he can't play it now, then I don't have to either. So it too is oddly low priority. C,D&E) These moves are all related, and in some instances they are miai I'd like to cap with below, but is sente to connect. Then he finishes a comfortable life with the big play at B3. It may even be sente for him because of the possibility of a white invasion at H3 or thereabouts.
I could play B3 myself, but it is not a threat to kill because he always has the option to slide underneath at B11:
F) There is no way for me to make much profit here with one move, because my stone is high:
It really isn't useful for him right now because he just triggers a corner-enclosing reply:
And my stone at Q9 is high enough so that it can run easily, and I can treat it lightly. He doesn't profit much. G) This is the only area that seems to be truly double sente. Each of us can strengthen our position here without the adverse effects that many other moves have. If he plays a shoulder hit, I have to respond, and suddenly a play on the right side looks big for him, in addition to the obvious corner profits.
If I play there first, it is not only obvious territory for me, but it is sente to reduce his corner to just a few points. Now my stone at P9 starts to look well positioned. If he defends with a kick, I get even more lower side territory:
If he defends with the dull play at then the invasion at H3 is much harder for him, so I may start playing against the left side and the center.
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Author: | TegaiS [ Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:59 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
I don't want to tenuki because the corner can easily become weak here. I also don't want to play Q2 because it exchanges the second line move for the third line move ( ) when the main events are in the center. Tsuke-nobi doesn't look good with black stones already at K3 and Q9. And I think Q6 works better than Q5 if Black invades the san-san.
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Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:12 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
An interesting move. He allows me to take the corner if I want it. He is concentrating on influence. That changes the character of the lower and right sides. On the upper and left side, all of the previous cautions and complications still apply. On the right, my stone is still light, so I'm not too concerned. But it wouldn't hurt to have more friends in the center if it has to run westward. On the lower side, this would be a problem:
It squashes my emerging moyo, and even threatens to invade whatever territory I have left. It makes running very difficult for my Q9 stone. |
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