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#265 dfan vs ThetaHat http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=13949 |
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Author: | ThetaHat [ Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:33 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat |
Another possible variation I didn't consider earlier
I'm okay with this
I have enough liberties if white cuts here
If white really tries to shorten my liberties...
Looks like I can escape?
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Author: | dfan [ Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:53 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat |
OK, he decided to get this in earlier rather than later. I still think I have to answer, and there are no ko threats in the opening, so the solid connection it is. Two empty triangles and counting! |
Author: | ThetaHat [ Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:12 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat |
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Author: | dfan [ Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:05 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat |
Interesting. I was expecting this:
This way gives Black a stronger corner (though I didn't think he needed it) at the expense of the strength of his outside stones. That's okay with me. I think I have an advantage in the ensuing struggle. Here's one variation:
and he gets a big corner while I get a big wall. I always have to be careful about the a-b exchange, as my stones above can run out of liberties very quickly. |
Author: | ThetaHat [ Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:12 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat |
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Author: | dfan [ Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:56 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat |
In for a penny, in for a pound. I couldn't find a good way to back off from this. I am a little afraid that my resulting "thickness" won't be as thick as it needs to be, but I hope to learn something finding out. |
Author: | ThetaHat [ Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:41 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat |
This is expected...It's gonna be a really messy fight. |
Author: | dfan [ Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:34 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat |
Back at move 22 I gave this variation:
but on rechecking my variations I discovered to my dismay that Black can make the a-b exchange before playing ![]() ![]() With my move I threaten to ladder Black's two stones. If he saves them, I have time to hane and pick up the three-stone string. There's one move that tries to save both, but I think I can handle it, barely:
and no ko threat is big enough to stop me from capturing next move. If I missed some trick of Black's, I'm probably in big trouble... |
Author: | ThetaHat [ Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:21 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat |
White will be very thick if I try to save the two stones
This looks much better for me. White is split into two groups and both of them are not 100% alive.
If white really wants to keep the center, he is gonna have to give up more territory to me. This trade looks good for me.
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Author: | dfan [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:15 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat |
Like I said, if I missed some trick of Black's, I'm probably in big trouble. ![]() The problem is that after this:
Black wins the capturing race. I had thought that my threat against the two stones was sente, but Black doesn't care if he can capture my three and connect to his isolated stones, splitting me:
Importantly, he doesn't even have to capture with a, so he can move out with ![]() So I don't think I have anything better than to concede the big corner entirely and get some small amount of compensation by making a wall:
This is obviously a big loss, but at least I have a wall (though it is open at the bottom) and sente. I'm clearly well behind, though. |
Author: | ThetaHat [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:12 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat |
Wow he is giving up a lot of points...he does get sente which is kinda big, but I still think locally the result is good for me |
Author: | dfan [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:45 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat |
It now occurs to me that this may not even be sente (there's no life or death at stake, just points). But it does threaten a capture worth 14 points that is basically sente itself (else I squeeze with J16 and J17). |
Author: | ThetaHat [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:32 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat |
I am gonna take because it makes my group super strong. If he dares to hane at J16, I will cut. |
Author: | dfan [ Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:28 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat |
I have to try to make all of my stones work together. I'm clearly behind, so I'm making an ambitious move. I would like to hane at the top, but I think Black would just ignore it; even if I then curl around and atari, and then capture two stones to get connected, I've spent three gote moves. I don't think I can afford to do that. |
Author: | ThetaHat [ Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:22 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat |
If I push the white stone now, I may not get the result I want since white urgently needs to build the center.
Even though white is forming a double wing, taking the 3-3 doesn't look good.
I could consider approaching from this side and then attacking the one white stone, but my base is too narrow, I don't like it.
If I approach from this side and get kicked, I can have a more efficient base. White's bottom isn't gonna make a lot of points because I can undercut the 4th line stones. I can even attack the marked group later.
If white pincers, which I think he should, I gonna fight like this.
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Author: | dfan [ Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:02 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat |
I guess this game isn't very interesting, given that no spectators have made any comments yet. ![]()
Use thickness to attack! I still probably shouldn't be too happy about recent developments, but at least this continuation fits my narrative, and all of my stones have a meaning. |
Author: | ThetaHat [ Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:06 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat |
Maybe it is because our ranks are too low? ![]()
Going to the corner looks bad, especially when the marked stone is on the 4th line...White can just keep pushing and completely seal me in.
I am planning for something like this...
White is very thick on the top, so I need to get out to the center.
This double hane is very big...
Edit: I added more comments to my moves |
Author: | hyperpape [ Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:34 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat |
I wonder if a higher pincer would have worked better here, and left Black fewer options to prioritize the outside.
But this variation looks like it might lead to White being a bit over-concentrated?
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Author: | kex [ Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:58 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat |
Quote: Use thickness to attack! I still probably shouldn't be too happy about recent developments, but at least this continuation fits my narrative, and all of my stones have a meaning. How come this is using thickness to attack? I don't understand. To me, this would be more like using thickness to attack:
If black makes a too long extension with 37, white would comfortably invade in between, so white would get more. |
Author: | daal [ Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:55 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat |
dfan wrote:
I don't like this white move. The problem with it is that it invites the black response at c16, leaving white in a position where his head is bumped. This also creates the possibility for the uncomfortable "bear hug" that takes place later when b plays d18. Edit: unhiding this as it has no effect on the game. |
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