@Jika
Yes, in this position the two
- 
exchanges would be questionable for Black. White has been strengthened in exchange for very little profit for Black.
| Life In 19x19 http://www.lifein19x19.com/ |
|
| Jika vs Kirby http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=16888 |
Page 5 of 7 |
| Author: | Jika [ Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jika vs Kirby |
Well, since O17 has been in my considerations since at least 2 moves ago, it does not come unexpected that Kirby plays there. I did not expect that this was so bad for me, as you say. But then, I could not expect to know if, had I played there first, the consequences had not been bad either. Please go on commenting, calling it small talk, advice or teaching. I've heard there are non-posting kibitzers out there (yes, Ferran, you!) who enjoy following your advice. Right now, I'm not sure if I want to read comments. I'm finding them too overwhelming. But I will come back to them after the game, and probably after some time again, to see if I understand more. Thank you!! |
|
| Author: | Jika [ Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jika vs Kirby |
I considered
but that would be mirroring J17. |
|
| Author: | Bill Spight [ Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jika vs Kirby |
@Jika
Yes, in this position the two - exchanges would be questionable for Black. White has been strengthened in exchange for very little profit for Black.
|
|
| Author: | Kirby [ Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jika vs Kirby |
I'm not sure if this is the most severe move, but I'm trying to be patient here (this is unlike me - I'm typically impatient). My idea is simple - keep my groups somewhat connected (they can be cut, but they get stronger if black tries to cut now). Surrounding the outside like this has the additional benefit of threatening the corner - black's lone 4-4 stone in the top left looks lonely, and could be in danger of living. If white captures the entire top left, that's a good chunk of points this early in a 9-stone game. Another thought that one might consider after a double approach would be to invade to get the points:
It's actually not that bad, and could be better than what I played in the game - I had a hard time deciding which one to play, but decided on the influence in the end. Here's one possible 3-3 variation:
It could also go like this:
And so on - there's still aji to play around 'a' to help the white stones... So I don't think the 3-3 is necessarily a bad option. But I still like influence in a handicap game like this, so in the end, I prefer the move I played in the game. It's a tough choice, though. The 3-3 is very tempting. |
|
| Author: | Uberdude [ Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jika vs Kirby |
@all I think it's instructive to look at this position topologically, that is in terms of large scale connection and separation of stones/groups. Jika now has 3 topological blobs, whilst Kirby has 2. Attachment: Screenshot_20190912_135649.jpg [ 226.23 KiB | Viewed 15571 times ] Connecting your stones into fewer blobs is better. Compare with one of Bill's suggestions for a classic calm response. 2 for black, 2 for White. Attachment: Screenshot_20190912_141109.jpg [ 225.64 KiB | Viewed 15571 times ] And if Jika played one of her ideas to answer the double approach. 2 and a bit for black (as top left isn't strongly connected to the rest). 3 for White. Attachment: Screenshot_20190912_143214.jpg [ 255.66 KiB | Viewed 15571 times ] |
|
| Author: | Ferran [ Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jika vs Kirby |
Jika wrote: I've heard there are non-posting kibitzers out there (yes, Ferran, you!) who enjoy following your advice. Moi? I'd never! You slander me, sir! Nah, it's just that I don't think I can give anything but questions that might derail the focus from the game. Take care. |
|
| Author: | Bill Spight [ Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jika vs Kirby |
Ferran wrote: Jika wrote: I've heard there are non-posting kibitzers out there (yes, Ferran, you!) who enjoy following your advice. Moi? I'd never! You slander me, sir! Nah, it's just that I don't think I can give anything but questions that might derail the focus from the game. Take care. Go ahead and ask.  Make them hidden and you won't derail anything.
|
|
| Author: | EdLee [ Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Test renderings of post 85 boards:
|
|
| Author: | Jika [ Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jika vs Kirby |
At least one benefit is that I am learning the diagram code a bit... I would have preferred to find a move how I can change the separation of my groups (right being cut off). I might try a move to try to get the upper right corner, but that is close combat...  So, now I'm testing Kirby's nice territory a bit. A toe in the water ("Jaws"...). |
|
| Author: | Kirby [ Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jika vs Kirby |
My natural inclination while playing go is to resist my opponent's plan. My opponent wants me to play 'A' so that he can play 'B'? Well, then I'll play 'C'! That'll show 'em! Maybe this could be categorized as fighting spirit, but it doesn't mean that it's always the best strategy. When my neighbor stops by my house and offers me a cake to eat, I'll take the cake - maybe it's a bad example with all of those calories. Anyway, black's move is endgame-ish. It only has meaning if black continues:
But in that case, it's just endgame. At that point, I can play a hanging connection to really eliminate aji in the corner - that's a good chunk of points for 6 stones:
However, if it goes like this, I might decide on a tenuki, and play elsewhere:
Anyway, long story short: Black's hane strengthens black's group, but it's already strong. So effectively, it's an endgame move. And I think it's too early to play endgame moves right now. I could consider ignoring, but there's value in playing a separating move, at least initially here. |
|
| Author: | Bill Spight [ Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jika vs Kirby |
Unhidden after Jika's move. Kirby wrote: My natural inclination while playing go is to resist my opponent's plan. My unnatural inclination is to let my opponent carry out his plan and to show that my plan is better.  In this case I answer, however.  Quote:
 looks slightly better to me.@ Jika: Great minds think alike.
|
|
| Author: | Jika [ Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jika vs Kirby |
I've found no moves that would really be good for me in this skirmish. But at least this one looks interesting. I've considered
too, but I'd be in two fights at the same time then, including a ko, which, though typically go, is nothing I have ever played on 9x9. Very confusing. I'm unhiding Kirby's comments regarding his second to last move (Kirby's comments only), and it is funny to see how he analyses the game / my possible moves totally differently than I do: For me it was already a fact that he has all the upper left corner, as far as his picket fence goes around there, and that therefore it is neither possible nor wise to play inside his borders. Maybe this is 9x9 mentality too (or just the knowledge I won't be able to win anything in close combat there). Kirby's expected moves in there made no sense to me. Ferran told me in our first game (not related to the Malkovich!) that people like 3-3 invasions. But I only know that, when invading or playing inside someones territory, I always get captured while frantically trying to make 2 eyes there... |
|
| Author: | EdLee [ Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
@ Jika: Quote: I've considered About your variation above:
Hint (a): White needs to control ALL 3 red spots to make (x) a real eye:
If you atari with  , did you expect White to connect ?
White may not connect. Example:
|
|
| Author: | Kirby [ Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jika vs Kirby |
It is proper to answer here:
But: 1. I think it's slow for a 9-stone handicap. 2. This is a game for fun, and I want to move onto another part of the board. I'm also curious to see how Jika will respond. |
|
| Author: | Jika [ Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jika vs Kirby |
Hi Kirby, I'll be travelling and very busy from early tomorow morning until Saturday. I hope I can get back to our game on Sunday! Thanks! |
|
| Author: | Jika [ Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jika vs Kirby |
I thought it would be too much for me to fight at three places at the same time. I guess I'm letting Kirby split the board there, but to me it looks like he has the upper half already and I prefer trying a little fight there (stupid as it may be) to entering / being lured into another skirmish. |
|
| Author: | Jika [ Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jika vs Kirby |
Kirby and others: My boss has offered / asked me to study alongside work (I don't know the English term: to keep working while studying for a degree). It's a great opportunity (and maybe an offer I can't refuse), but also some kind of bad timing when I was looking forward to dedicating my time and brain capacity to learning go. I'll keep learning go, but will approach it more as a recreational thing. I think this will do me some good, because I tend to take things very serious in an intellectual sense. I'll also follow Bill's (was it you?) advice to better play one move / game a day than not play at all! |
|
| Author: | Kirby [ Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jika vs Kirby |
Congratulations on your new opportunity, Jika - maybe it's called a co-op in English?
One thought is to answer Jika. A couple of moves that come to mind are marked below.
Both of those moves have the feeling of trying to separate black. But neither seem that appealing, at least for now:
One option black has is to simply solidify the territory in the corner. This early in the game, that seems to be losing opportunity. The other move doesn't seem that great either:
So I'll play elsewhere for now. |
|
| Author: | Jika [ Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jika vs Kirby |
I think that ignoring Kirby there probably isn't good. But as said above I don't want to enter another skirmish. I feel like all my stones are separated and following Kirby would be like abandoning them in a vague state, as if a shepherd is ignoring the wolf who has surrounded the sheep and is waiting patiently to kill them later (what will be the case, of course). I considered
but found it very slow when Kirby is claiming such a large chunk of the board.
might block Kirby's jumping forward merrily. But there I'd be reacting, reacting. I'm feeling I'm not making good use of the handicap stones, but well... |
|
| Author: | Bill Spight [ Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Jika vs Kirby |
@ Jika What do you mean you don't want another skirmish? What you should do is kill Kirby's stones in the top right. If you can. Go for the early lunch! Good luck! |
|
| Page 5 of 7 | All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ] |
| Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|
blobs ; 2 
blobs