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 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #41 Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:23 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 57
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 4
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[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . W X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Technique to maintain sente compared to L15 gote.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c White's preference.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X 3 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . 1 W X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . 2 O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #42 Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:27 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 106
Liked others: 11
Was liked: 3
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X B . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I see, but my territory has gone more solid, so still okay with it.

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Offline
 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #43 Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:32 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 57
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 4
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


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 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #44 Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:53 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 106
Liked others: 11
Was liked: 3
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 1 . . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 1 . . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 3 . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

or

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c lives in sente
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 O O X . . . . O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . 0 7 2 1 . . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 5 . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 3 . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #45 Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:00 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 57
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 4
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X W . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I believe this is the wrong move order for Black.

Normally, Black aims for the following shape with the D13 attachment, then may come back to live with E15 at the right time.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O Y . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . Y . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O Y Y . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 4 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black could also try to first make the following exchange, creating an additional forcing move at 'a'.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 1 O O X . . . . O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . 4 a 3 . . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 O 7 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 8 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

However, by playing E15 first, it allows White to reply at D15, rather than C15, and then White can hane above at E13 due to the E14 atari (see below).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 1 . . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 6 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 4 . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 5 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Following this, Black may try to block at F13 to force a ko at F15, but it appears to be fine for White because Black lacks large enough ko threats:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c :b5: at E15
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . 9 . . O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X 2 3 O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 6 O X 0 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O 1 . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Cont. 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . X 1 . O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X 2 X O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I would also be happy with something like this
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 6 X 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 8 O 5 X 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 7 . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Last, Black may have been worried about the wedge at F15, however, it's easily managed due to 'a'.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X a O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X 6 . . . O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 2 3 O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #46 Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:21 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 106
Liked others: 11
Was liked: 3
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O B X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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[go]$$c looks bad for black
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X 3 . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O 1 . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 4 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #47 Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:27 pm 
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[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . W X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


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Post #48 Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:29 pm 
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[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X B . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #49 Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:30 pm 
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[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #50 Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:54 pm 
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[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O 1 . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 3 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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[go]$$c white cannot cut
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O 1 . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 4 5 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 3 6 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #51 Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:58 pm 
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[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Finishing shape. I expect Black will do the same with G10.

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Post #52 Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 3:48 pm 
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[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . B O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Aiming H12.

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Post #53 Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:35 pm 
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[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . X O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . W . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The L16 stone is not as important as the unsettled Black group. White would like to push and cut at E11, play a stone that reinforces against the Black wedges at H16 amd H14 and cut at H12, and is able to respond to Black's followup around L14/L15. J14 is a good candidate, while also building eye shape. Perhaps there are better moves, but this seems good enough (an 80% move).

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Post #54 Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:33 pm 
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Universal go server handle: telegraphgo
So far I've found white's play instructive, but this is the first move from white that I don't feel good about. After reviewing many games with AI, I've developed some affinity for their preferences, and they really don't like to play heavy-slow-thick (sometimes 1 or 2, but almost never all three). It's 100% light play, weakest area, and pedal-to-the-metal with an AI. I think this move is a little misaligned from that, because the wedges weren't as apparently volatile as the connections around E10.

It's definitely desirable to play at the upper white group, but I would much prefer to add thickness around H10/J10/J11 - heck, even tengen might be better. The point is that the important area for the group, and for the game, is the center. H17 can be sacrificed, since nothing works right away and capturing would need significant commitment from black.

Taking 80% of what you greedily want is a philosophy I ought to apply more, but being too narrow and heavy with defense often makes life harder. Aiming for 100% and offering 20% as a sacrifice is a more reliable route to secure a fine result, in my experience.

We haven't had many comments yet, so I'll give my best guess at a forecast of the game. Strategically, I'm thinking both sides need to be looking for sente to play first on the right and the bottom. Black has four corners, so if they keep initiative with reductions during the midgame they will win. On the other hand, if white gets H3 and initiative at the upper right, I can see some moyo forming that black could just fail to keep up with. Right now, I'm expecting G10 and some exciting high-value fighting, with many opportunities for a fun tenuki, to follow.

(also, I'm coming back to my blind game soon, I've just got to settle myself down first)

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Post #55 Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:23 pm 
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[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . X O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X B . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White's last move was very unexpected, but it does connect the white stones solidly making E11 cut a powerful move. I couldn't find a better response than this bamboo joint connection. With white's last move, it has also gained a lot of potential on the center.

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Post #56 Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:31 am 
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[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . X O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Expanding the center while keeping pressure on Black.

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Post #57 Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:36 am 
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[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . X O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Leaning to make shape. If white responds with C8, black can play elsewhere.

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Post #58 Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:45 pm 
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[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . X O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O W . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

For this position, there are too many moves to consider writing about, so I've narrowed it to some big ideas.

Preserving the push and cut at D9 is more valuable than attempting to block off additional bottom-center territory around F8. This relates to the following points. The upper-right is far and away the most valuable area of the board, so sacrificing potential in other areas to gain more in this area is worth it. Black has forcing moves around Q8, J11 and G5. K3 is also a nasty invasion. Although blocking at White S7 induces R4 and enables Black to enter the center around O4, it would allow White to remove K3 when responding. S7 also lets White respond to the Q8 forcing move with R9. As for the H13 group, it's currently acceptable for it to earn a minor amount of points in exchange for potential and territory elsewhere.

I intend to followup at R14.

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 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #59 Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:29 pm 
Dies with sente

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Was liked: 3
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . X O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X B X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Interesting timing because I'd at least do D9 F8 exchange if I wanted to take sente, but it's true that black currently hasn't some strong move to play first on the left side because the group is weak. White has gained influence on the right side, but black has regained O4.

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 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #60 Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:31 pm 
Dies in gote

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Liked others: 1
Was liked: 4
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O X . O . . X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . X O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O X . . O . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . O , . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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