jlt v. hailthorn

Post Reply
User avatar
jlt
Gosei
Posts: 1786
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:59 am
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 186 times
Been thanked: 495 times

Re: jlt v. hailthorn

Post by jlt »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Following my plan. No other possible move, White needs to make a base and protect the cut D2.
Top
hailthorn011
Lives in sente
Posts: 1160
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:34 pm
Rank: KGS 6k
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: hailthorn
Location: VA, USA
Has thanked: 183 times
Been thanked: 100 times
Contact:
Contact hailthorn011

Re: jlt v. hailthorn

Post by hailthorn011 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I feel like the position at the bottom left is settled enough for me to play this move. I feel like it is imperative for me to play here and cut into white's sphere of influence. I considered B14 but I feared the pincer. However that is the move I would like to play on my next turn if able. :study:
Slava Ukraini!
Top
User avatar
jlt
Gosei
Posts: 1786
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:59 am
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 186 times
Been thanked: 495 times

Re: jlt v. hailthorn

Post by jlt »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . 1 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
That was expected, he is pincering my two stones but thanks to H8 the pincer is not too severe, and for the moment :b17: is also weak. I don't really have any severe attack on the group F5, so the only sensible thing to do is to attack :b17:. There are essentially two ways of attacking.

The first one is to attack on the side and start a running battle. The direction of play may look like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 2 . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O a . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
While White may seem to be builing potential on the top, this doesn't look good at all, the group E8 is now severely pincered, the cut at "a" is exposed, and if E8 doesn't die it will need to struggle a lot to survive, so Black will make a lot of profit in the process.

The second way is to make a capping attack at one of the following places:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . a b . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . c . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"b" doesn't seem good, I can't find a good response if Black plays "c" next.

Concerning "a", I am afraid of the following variation:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 4 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 3 2 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
White seems at a disadvantage here, Black is too thick around and White has too many cutting points.

So remains move "c". Maybe Black will attach next, and then I'll probably hane:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . 1 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I don't know if the sequence is good. In any case I won't absolutely try to save all stones, some of them will be sacrificed in the process. I'll try to build a strong group in order to control the center, which may help later if I need to invade the right side.
Top
dfan
Gosei
Posts: 1603
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:49 am
Rank: AGA 2k Fox 3d
GD Posts: 61
KGS: dfan
Has thanked: 892 times
Been thanked: 537 times
Contact:
Contact dfan

Re: jlt v. hailthorn

Post by dfan »

As White, I would have taken away the base (probably with C13) without a second thought, for better or worse. It's one of those moves that seems so correct from a fundamentals viewpoint that I'd really need a serious concrete reason not to play it.
Top
hailthorn011
Lives in sente
Posts: 1160
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:34 pm
Rank: KGS 6k
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: hailthorn
Location: VA, USA
Has thanked: 183 times
Been thanked: 100 times
Contact:
Contact hailthorn011

Re: jlt v. hailthorn

Post by hailthorn011 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If one read my previous comment this was the move I had planned to play!
Slava Ukraini!
Top
User avatar
jlt
Gosei
Posts: 1786
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:59 am
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 186 times
Been thanked: 495 times

Re: jlt v. hailthorn

Post by jlt »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Yes, although I didn't mention it in my previous post, I expected that move too. I didn't attack Black on the side, so it's natural for Black to make a base and approach the corner at the same time.

For White, tenuki is not an option. First because responding to a corner approach, although not always necessary, is always big. And second because Black is still weakish, and putting pressure on weak groups is generally urgent. OK, so now how to respond to Black's last move?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . i . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . h d O . c . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . e a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X f g . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . j . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
First, I discard moves like "f" or "g". Not only these moves don't enclose Black, but also White doesn't have any extension around K16, so not much potential on the top side.

What if I extend at "b" or "c"? Then I expect Black "h", White "i". Or maybe an AI joseki starting with Black "d" but I don't think he will play it since he says he has been on a long hiatus so may not have followed post-AI developments. Then the stone D11 is slightly misplaced and there is a weakness at "j", however if White tries to exploit it and makes a living group on the side, Black will be reinforced and this in turn will weaken the other white group F10.

So better protect the corner with one of the moves a, d or e. I don't think that "d" is good, the hoshi stone is a bit too lonely to play a move like that. I don't have a good feeling about "e", although I can't express why. So I'll go for the kick "a". I expect Black "f" next, so that Black is a bit overconcentrated because D11 is a bit too close. Then I'll extend to "b" or "c", I don't know which one yet. Whatever the continuation, this doesn't protect the upper left corner since Black can always invade at "i", but I think it's fine, I feel more satisfied with White's development than with other options.
Top
skydyr
Oza
Posts: 2495
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:06 am
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Location: DC
Has thanked: 156 times
Been thanked: 436 times

Re: jlt v. hailthorn

Post by skydyr »

dfan wrote:
As White, I would have taken away the base (probably with C13) without a second thought, for better or worse. It's one of those moves that seems so correct from a fundamentals viewpoint that I'd really need a serious concrete reason not to play it.
I would have chosen D13 personally, but it's the same idea and felt like the only type of move to play to me. White seems strong enough and could always lean on the other black group if necessary. White also needs to start thinking about making points with his area of influence before it all becomes valueless due to fighting, and using a corner enclosure to simultaneously attack seems a good way to start.
Top
hailthorn011
Lives in sente
Posts: 1160
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:34 pm
Rank: KGS 6k
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: hailthorn
Location: VA, USA
Has thanked: 183 times
Been thanked: 100 times
Contact:
Contact hailthorn011

Re: jlt v. hailthorn

Post by hailthorn011 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Seems like a natural move to me.
Slava Ukraini!
Top
User avatar
jlt
Gosei
Posts: 1786
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:59 am
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 186 times
Been thanked: 495 times

Re: jlt v. hailthorn

Post by jlt »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Didn't expect this. I thought the game would continue as in the diagram below:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 I expected this
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . c . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 3 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Then the stone D11 would not be ideally placed, but Black would be reasonably secure for now so maybe could tenuki and aim at a, b or c later. Normally :b21: is necessary to prevent White from making a tiger's mouth, which is a good shape. Moves on the second line like Black did in the game are rarely good at this stage, when there are still bigger points to be played.

In light of this, I want to respond to the game move with a tiger's mouth:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . b . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
If Black extends with "a" then I can block the corner with "b", and Black's shape looks cramped, while White develops nicely.

On the other hand, Black may want to take the corner:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 4 O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 O 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
White gave up some points in the corner, but in exchange got a nice influence, the stone D11 is a bit lonely, and White's group F10 is strengthened. The corner was never White's anyway, Black always had the option to invade at the 3-3 point.

Instead of the tiger's mouth :w22:, I could consider to block the corner:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 . O . 5 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Then I think that Black needs to play at :b23: anyway, otherwise Black's shape would be horrible if White plays there next. Then this looks like the normal joseki with an additional bad exchange :b21: - :w22: for Black.

I don't know which move is best between D14 and B16. I don't think any of the two options is bad. Need to take a decision. I could toss a coin, or play nigiri against myself. Or just say that it's a matter of style, and that I like influence and strong groups, so let's take D14 and see how the game develops.
Top
hailthorn011
Lives in sente
Posts: 1160
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:34 pm
Rank: KGS 6k
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: hailthorn
Location: VA, USA
Has thanked: 183 times
Been thanked: 100 times
Contact:
Contact hailthorn011

Re: jlt v. hailthorn

Post by hailthorn011 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Slava Ukraini!
Top
User avatar
jlt
Gosei
Posts: 1786
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:59 am
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 186 times
Been thanked: 495 times

Re: jlt v. hailthorn

Post by jlt »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm24 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The only move.
Top
hailthorn011
Lives in sente
Posts: 1160
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:34 pm
Rank: KGS 6k
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: hailthorn
Location: VA, USA
Has thanked: 183 times
Been thanked: 100 times
Contact:
Contact hailthorn011

Re: jlt v. hailthorn

Post by hailthorn011 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm24 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Big oof. :scratch:
Slava Ukraini!
Top
User avatar
jlt
Gosei
Posts: 1786
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:59 am
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 186 times
Been thanked: 495 times

Re: jlt v. hailthorn

Post by jlt »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm26 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
He doesn't want the corner? Then I take it. I think it's pretty big, not only in terms of points, but also because this secures my group D16 so that I only have one weak group on the board, while making Black's group B14 not completely alive.

Another option would have been to play like this
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm26
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
This would have enclosed Black while loosely connecting my two white groups and building a huge central influence. Again this is hard to decide but my impression was that the corner was too big and should be taken. But since White didn't play at E12, it's quite possible that Black will play there next, in order to separate the two white groups.
Top
hailthorn011
Lives in sente
Posts: 1160
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:34 pm
Rank: KGS 6k
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: hailthorn
Location: VA, USA
Has thanked: 183 times
Been thanked: 100 times
Contact:
Contact hailthorn011

Re: jlt v. hailthorn

Post by hailthorn011 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm26 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I'm not very happy with this board. I've made some blunders and misreads and everything expected with a mid level SDK. Am I playing at a SDK level? I'm not sure. Probably not. But I am going to keep doing my best. :tmbup:
Slava Ukraini!
Top
User avatar
jlt
Gosei
Posts: 1786
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:59 am
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 186 times
Been thanked: 495 times

Re: jlt v. hailthorn

Post by jlt »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . 1 . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
That's one of the threats I was talking about in post #19. I don't see any way to live in sente nor to get out, so it's a bit sad but I have to live small and in gote.
Top
Post Reply

Return to “1-on-1 Malkovich games”