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117. levanez (3k) vs. Banaan (1k)
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=3745
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Author:  levanez [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:33 am ]
Post subject:  117. levanez (3k) vs. Banaan (1k)

Banaan has agreed to play an even game with me, 6.5 komi. He'll be taking white.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


First move at hoshi has been my favorite lately. I've experimented with 3-3, 4-3, 5-3, and found that high openings aiming for influence suit me well. Next move may even be 5-4 if I'm feeling adventurous, but 3-4 aiming for an eclosure is not out of the question either :)

Author:  EdLee [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:35 am ]
Post subject: 

levanez, Banaan: good game.

Author:  Banaan [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 118. levanez (3k) vs. Banaan (1k)

My first Malkovich game :o
Levanez, good game and have fun!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not much to say here yet. I'll try to play a simple fuseki since i'm best at those.

Author:  levanez [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 118. levanez (3k) vs. Banaan (1k)

Thanks , Ed. Good game for you too Banaan ;-)

Edited the game topic # to 117, thanks Banaan! Still getting the hang of diagram code, took me 4 try to get it the way I wanted :-?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I said I'd go for 5-4, here it is. When white took another star point 3-4 in either direction would enable him to approach, and the resulting josekis aren't very helpful for my opening strategy no matter which one I choose. With 5-4 instead I'll be sure to have a wall facing my upper hoshi.

I know that generally white won't approach 3-4 on the 3rd move, but it's what I'd do.

Author:  Banaan [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 117. levanez (3k) vs. Banaan (1k)

the next move!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think black will approach my upper hoshi, and I'll pincer (probably).

Author:  levanez [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 117. levanez (3k) vs. Banaan (1k)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If white pincers, I'll probably enter at 3-3, get sente, then come back and enclosing the lower right corner. If he extends or keima, then I'll follow joseki.

Author:  Banaan [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 117. levanez (3k) vs. Banaan (1k)

White pincers!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Explanation will come later! Phone is a bit hard to edit the diagram ^^

edit: explanation:

I pincer because I wouldnt like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 7 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . a . 8 . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


both a and b dont look attractive to me. B will give a moyo game (and seems to work well with black's lower 5-4), and i generally dont really like A.

this looks better to me:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm7 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 2 8 X . 0 . . . . . W . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]




so, pincer it is!

Author:  levanez [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 117. levanez (3k) vs. Banaan (1k)

A jump!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


After much consideration, a jump would probably be better than entering at 3-3, mainly because I can't find a way to retain sente after a 3-3 invasion. Let's see how white reacts. I'm expecting this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 5 , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Let's see how white reacts.

Author:  Loons [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 117. levanez (3k) vs. Banaan (1k)

Nice dramatic narration. Good luck.

I dunno about describing one popular pro choice as 'better' than another popular pro choice though.

Edit: Hang on, I keep hallucinating that 5-4 as a 4-4. Don't mind me.

Author:  Banaan [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 117. levanez (3k) vs. Banaan (1k)

Another jump!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


not much choice here!

@Loons: I think the variation with c14 I posted is also playable, it just feels to me like thats the thing black wants

Author:  levanez [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 117. levanez (3k) vs. Banaan (1k)

Sliding in.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

He jumped as expected. My sliding in is to find a base for my group, since another move at c18 should be sente for me. After that, time to pressure the lone white stone on the right.

Author:  Banaan [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 117. levanez (3k) vs. Banaan (1k)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm9 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Didn't expect that move, I would have done just j16. now the sansan invasion is not possible anymore

Author:  levanez [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 117. levanez (3k) vs. Banaan (1k)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm9 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Sente or not?

Author:  EdLee [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:20 am ]
Post subject: 

Hidden until upper left corner completely settled:
levanez wrote:
Sente or not?
Even if :b11: is sente, it is an end-game move, aji keshi, and does not increase eye space for B. It's a thank-you move.

Author:  Kirby [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 117. levanez (3k) vs. Banaan (1k)

EdLee wrote:
Hidden until upper left corner completely settled:
levanez wrote:
Sente or not?
Even if :b11: is sente, it is an end-game move, aji keshi, and does not increase eye space for B. It's a thank-you move.


EdLee:
I agree with all that you've said, except I'm curious about the eye-space bit. The move may be end game and aji keshi, but does it not increase eyespace?

Author:  Banaan [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 117. levanez (3k) vs. Banaan (1k)

W makes a base!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm9 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O . . 4 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


that doesnt look like sente. He might make a base now with b17, but its small and gote (without finishing with b18 i dont think its a base yet) and i have a base too now! Next i can approach the upper hoshi (or he'll move there and attack my 2 stones on the top). if he doesnt b17, c18 is a wasted move. We'll see what happens

Author:  levanez [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 117. levanez (3k) vs. Banaan (1k)

Peeper!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm9 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Since he decided to ignore B11, I can peep here and take out the corner, which is compensation enough, I guess? I'd have preferred he protected that side so I can switch to the middle top though. Looks like this game will have lots of small groups everywhere.

Author:  Loons [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 117. levanez (3k) vs. Banaan (1k)

@Kirby, Ed
It is eyespace Levanez wants and it is eyespace he will get!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Maybe ?
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O . . X . O . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

White has developed on both sides ? I don't really see any tougher "resistance".

Author:  EdLee [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:51 pm ]
Post subject: 

Kirby,
Kirby wrote:
but does it not increase eyespace?
If W replies to :b11: with a block at 2-2 (B-18), B still only has 1 eye locally, no?

Author:  Banaan [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 117. levanez (3k) vs. Banaan (1k)

The stone that connects and protects!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm9 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X 6 . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The peep! Didnt think of that. Not a lot of choice here, but I think its fine. The game looks nice for w


edit: aaah i cut myself. lets try again :p

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