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118. hailthorn vs. Tryphon http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=3812 |
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Author: | hailthorn011 [ Sun May 08, 2011 7:49 am ] |
Post subject: | 118. hailthorn vs. Tryphon |
This is a game between Tryphon and me. I'm playing black, and komi will be 6.5 with Japanese rules
Good game Tryphon. May Shusaku be with you. (ha ha) This is a standard starting move for me as black. I very rarely play elsewhere as my starting move when playing black. In this regard, I guess I'm one dimensional, but I've never seen any reason not to play here! |
Author: | Tryphon [ Sun May 08, 2011 8:16 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 118. hailthorn vs. Tryphon |
Good game to you ![]() Hi, I'm Tryphon and this is my first Malkovich game. I reached KGS 9k but last year was kind of busy for me (my first child was born on September, and my wife's pregnancy was difficult) and I almost didn't play a real-time game since last summer. I play now mostly on OGS. I like : - influence - stones working well together - attacking - strange openings I dislike (and I'm very weak at) : - endgame - counting (likely my worst weakpoint) - complicate sequences (to be true, I like that, but the lack of play these days weakened my play mostly on this aspect) - josekis I'll try to explain my thinking the most I can, asking questions when they arise, and I hope receiving answers and hints to improve. I will only describe in my comments moves that I saw before posting, and not playing sequences of tenth of moves that I couldn't figure without a goban. I won't use joseki dictionnary. And now, for something completely different, my first move. I hesitate between playing a common or a weird game. That's why I ask MHO to choose for me. If the unit digit of the number he'll choose is 0-4, I'll play A (my most common answer), 5-6 : I'll play B (offer a diagonal fuseki, I don't like much), 7 : I'll play C (a move I don't like at all, but that'll force me to think territorially), 8 : D and 9 : E (I love particularly this last, usually followed by another 8-8, but generally I play it with B, and it works rarely well with a turn based game)
I'm looking forward to feedbacks by stronger players than me ![]() |
Author: | hailthorn011 [ Sun May 08, 2011 8:18 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 118. hailthorn vs. Tryphon |
54? lol |
Author: | Puppycakes [ Sun May 08, 2011 8:20 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 118. hailthorn vs. Tryphon |
hailthorn011 wrote: 54? lol If the number is irrational, you're white, otherwise you're black. |
Author: | Tryphon [ Sun May 08, 2011 8:22 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 118. hailthorn vs. Tryphon |
Ok, then :
Nothing special to say. I use my right to deny a diagonal opening. I don't like playing komoku as W2, because B can always take one of the two following points, then make the classical joseki :
I know both positions are equivalent, but I don't like W here. |
Author: | hailthorn011 [ Sun May 08, 2011 8:37 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 118. hailthorn vs. Tryphon |
This, of course, is to help my stones work together. Plus I have an affection for the right side. ![]() |
Author: | Tryphon [ Sun May 08, 2011 8:39 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 118. hailthorn vs. Tryphon |
What I'd like to get is that :
But if I play 4 first, he can come at B and I already said I didn't like that. So 6 first. And if he plays at a, then I play c, I like this move. |
Author: | hailthorn011 [ Sun May 08, 2011 9:05 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 118. hailthorn vs. Tryphon |
Very interesting move, Tryphon. I haven't seen that before. lol
As noted, I haven't ever really seen W E17 before. I know it's probably a good move, but I wasn't entirely sure how to respond, so I had to think about it and play it out on a board to see what I could possibly do. I'm anticipating C16 here. |
Author: | Tryphon [ Sun May 08, 2011 9:37 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 118. hailthorn vs. Tryphon |
He played what I dislike the most ![]() A : usually, I do that, threatening D B : same idea than A. I don't know which is better, since I know maybe 3 josekis ![]() C : erk D : I prefer play A before E : I don't like it, there will be 4th line stones everywhere and it will be a mess I choose A, but I'm not happy, because I take territory whereas I prefer influence. But I prefer secure some stones to attack his ones. I suppose he'll play around D now. Question : what are the pros/cons of B towards A ? |
Author: | Tryphon [ Sun May 08, 2011 9:58 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 118. hailthorn vs. Tryphon |
hailthorn011 wrote: Very interesting move, Tryphon. I haven't seen that before. lol Had you chosen 59 at my first question, you'd have been even more surprised ![]() |
Author: | Banaan [ Sun May 08, 2011 10:04 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 118. hailthorn vs. Tryphon |
If you say "May Shusaku be with you", at least play Shusaku fuseki! ![]() For Tryphon, if the upper left is settled: C17 (a) is a low move, and I think its less good than c16 (b). c16 gives black a bit better shape, but your corner is a lot bigger. comparison: A:
and b:
I think the first variation is better when white is strong in the area and doesnt want w to get a good shape. Also, there are more variations with C16 |
Author: | Mnemonic [ Sun May 08, 2011 10:16 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 118. hailthorn vs. Tryphon |
The basic Idea behind the 3-5 point is to prioritize the side instead of the corner. The most common point of invasion is the 34 point with one of the josekis looking like this:
In this instance ![]() ninja'ed ![]() |
Author: | hailthorn011 [ Sun May 08, 2011 10:40 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 118. hailthorn vs. Tryphon |
Good idea Banaan. Maybe using the Shusaku fuseki can become a signature of mine lol Well, after I learn how to play it, that is. |
Author: | hailthorn011 [ Sun May 08, 2011 10:44 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 118. hailthorn vs. Tryphon |
I have no idea what I'm doing here, to be quite honest. E17 is quite alien to me. I figure C16 is a good multipurpose move, though. I'll try it and see where it goes. Although I have a feeling it's going to end up biting me in the rear-end. |
Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Sun May 08, 2011 10:55 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 118. hailthorn vs. Tryphon |
To observers: hailthorn011 wrote:
I have no idea what I'm doing here... He is making himself heavy, I think. And he is forcing white to take territory.
The above exchange seems ineveitable, and cannot be good for black. A safer way might be to simply tenuki, or to play as below:
FWIW, black's move might be reasonable if there were no room for white to extend along the top.
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Author: | mw42 [ Sun May 08, 2011 12:30 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 118. hailthorn vs. Tryphon |
Clearly this exchange is bad for black as you can see from the tewari, ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Author: | Tryphon [ Sun May 08, 2011 3:44 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 118. hailthorn vs. Tryphon |
It's the first time someone plays 7 in this situation.
B is the most natural and I can't see why it could be wrong. But my opponent key point is my keypoint, so I'm looking avidly at A. But if I play A, MHO plays B and can make a base, whereas my 2 corner stones become under attack. They'll flee, but then A can be attacked. So, B. |
Author: | EdLee [ Sun May 08, 2011 4:52 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Joaz, mw42, (hidden from players until upper left settled), About the ![]() ![]() Joaz Banbeck wrote: The above exchange seems ineveitable, and cannot be good for black. mw42 wrote: Clearly this exchange is bad for black as you can see from the tewari Local search, pro games -- (a) 23 games (1680 - 2008); (b) 2 games (1974, 1977); (c) 1 game (1963) --so ![]()
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Author: | mw42 [ Sun May 08, 2011 4:58 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
EdLee wrote: Joaz, mw42, (hidden from players until upper left settled), Joaz Banbeck wrote: The above exchange seems ineveitable, and cannot be good for black. mw42 wrote: Clearly this exchange is bad for black as you can see from the tewari Local search, pro games -- (a) 23 games (1680 - 2008); (b) 2 games (1974, 1977); (c) 1 game (1963) --so ![]()
*ahem* As I said, clearly this exchange is good for black. ^^ Actually, I still think it is bad. I bet the global situation is such that a wall on the approached side is good for black's development (as is not the case for this game). Can you provide some games for context? Sorry, I often request this when people pull a DB on me! |
Author: | EdLee [ Sun May 08, 2011 5:11 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
mw42, mw42 wrote: I bet the global situation is such that a wall on the approached side is good for black's development (as is not the case for this game). Joaz's analysis was local, and in a few of the pro games, the B move also happened quite early (move 8, move 10, etc.),Can you provide some games for context? Sorry, I often request this when people pull a DB on me! so there was no wall to speak of -- here are two:
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