123
Yes i know it's your luggage code ,it's mine too.

I want to try the kobayashi which i have been experimenting with lately (but i know very little).
One of my big flaw is to try to always simplify and avoid battles if i can't see clearly that i will be on top, sometimes to the point of cowardice, i want to avoid that in this game.
I will not turn into a hothead overnight but i will try to go into complications if they are unclear instead of running off the goban.
Thats the theory anyway

I don't like diagonal fusekis very much.

I am particularly weak at territorial games, that's why I play san-san, for a learning

so much for the kobayashi...
i like to play 4-4 and 3-4 for balance anyway, maybe a chinese next we ll see

Not much to say. I suppose I could have played a more influence-oriented stone, but I like coherent things. I have to admit that I never played this opening (maybe in 9x9), and that I'm not accustomed at all at playing territorially. We'll see.

I like white's opening :p

i think the chinese is well fitted here/ if i extend to the bottom i ll have more space than against a 4-4.
OTOH if i complete the corner enclosure he ll have the more interesting remaining point

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wm6
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
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$$ | . . . b . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . .|
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . c . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

The advantage of san-san is that it doesn't need another move to protect the corner, so I didn't consider any shimari.

Instead, I considered 4 moves :
- approach corner at a : classical, can't be bad
- make a formation at b : I find it constradictory with playing san-san as a stand alone stone
- approach at c : I always found myself uneasy with approaching a komoku from the small side
- approach at d : Far too early. But I'd prefer qpproach from this side

standard, played high because my cinses is low.
aand a smiley for my boy who wants a grumpy this time:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm7
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . b . . O . . . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . c . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . .|
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . .|
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

Here are the 3 answers I thought of.

a is a common joseki, one of the few I know. I don't like it very much because it closes the corner
b is usually played after a. I can play it immediatly, leaving the corner open, but usually B answer by a kosumi-tsuke at p17 to make my extension a little heavy
c is my favourite. It's light, in the sense of B can then invade, but kosumi-tsuke doesn't work anymore, the corner is open, there plenty of things to do after

But most of the time, c works well with my stone of the top-left, that I play usually at hoshi or at 5-3 or 5-4. Here, I started a territory game so let's play the move that makes the more territory, so a.

If I were Black, I'd play M17 or N17 rather than sansan.

My feeling is that after this joseki White will have too many stones on the 2nd and third lines. White needs to get back the balance, how he is going to do that I am not sure. I am not familiar with this double 3-3 opening as White.

I agree with Aphelion. I would have been tempted, as White, to play as below:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wm6
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 3 . . 1 . , . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

Or one of the many other variations after ... but that's just my preference.

i learned a bit thanks to dailyjoseki.com (free ad ) about the josekis starting at a and i was tempted to give them a try but here the natural move at c really seems ok as the top is not that valuable
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . a b O . . c . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . .|
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$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

Since I like moyo games, and his opening seems leading towards that (isn't it chinese opening ?), had I been him, I'd play something like this :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm9
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 4 O . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . 1 . O 3 . 2 . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 5 . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

But with what he played, I have no choice but finish the simplest joseki of the world.

I now wait for an approach of the bottom left corner.

The least I can say is that I feel low, but so far, IIRC, I'm playing the same moves that Cho Chi Kun played against Fujisawa Shuko in the last of the 7th game of the Kisei he won (I know this game because he's commented in Pierre Aroutcheff's book "Perfectionnement au Go" and it's the only double san-san game by pro I've seen).

Okay, I'm no Cho-Chi-Kun but he's no Shuko. That must be playable...

my main source of knowledge for the chinese is the excellent serie from charles mattews at gobase, and he gives almost this position (with the W stones on the hosi instead of the san-san which should be good for me) in his example of W approaching the 4-4 stone.
He then explain than taking instead of enclosing the corneris the chinese idea: build the bottom and (almost ) force W to invade by making and approach of the bottom right corner.
in fact in a lot of my games against 8-10k W does not invade and i have a good position if i manage to enclose the corner after playing 1 here. On the other hand if i enclose and W takes the bottom side hoshi i am squashed to one side of the board.

but i expect that given his 2 san-san stones tryphon will think the left side unimportant and indeed approach the corner. then i'll extend the bottom while harassing the approach stone, chinese-style
I considered moving 1 to the left or right to adjust to his stone being on 3-3 but finally i think that the important thing here is the relation with my own Q3,K9 stones so i keep it on the middle.

End of Cho vs. Shuko

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm11
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . b . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . e . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . .|
$$ | . . . , . a a a . 1 . . d . . , . . .|
$$ | . . O . . a a a . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

- First idea : extension. It threatens an invasion towards d, so B is likely to answer. Two problems : sooner or later, I'll have to invade the right, and letting him reinforce will make this more difficult. OTOH, premature invasion is a pain in the neck. But I feel it'll be still possible.
Other problem : where to extend ? 2nd line seems out of question, he'll cap and make a moyo. And how far ? 2 spaces seems too close from a sansan, 4 spaces will help more a future invasion on the right but has too much weakness related to sansan.

- Second idea : establish a formation at b. I have the feeling that a stone at b would be, as said Bill Spight in another thread, neither here nor here. Too far from sansan to make anything. Maybe I'm mistaken.

- Third idea : invade at c or d. That's really tempting, but I think it's premature.

- Fourth idea : extend towards e. It's gote, but it'll make a further play at b good. He'll have time to reinforce the bottom, either towards a (but I'll have space to invade at c) or c (I'll extend towards a to threaten the invasion) or d (I think c is still playable). I think also about others invasions.

I strongly hesitate between a and e...

You'll notice that I don't know much about the fuseki I try (except the fact I knew about the Cho-Shuko game, I don't have a fuseki book, and I follow Takemiya's advice : "play the moves that warms your heart", I try to think about it, so don't hesitate to criticize my thoughts.

Go for e !