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#134 dabird vs sevis http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=4350 |
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Author: | Sevis [ Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:10 pm ] |
Post subject: | #134 dabird vs sevis |
6.5 komi, Japanese rules, no handicap, open joseki dictionaries. Nigiri: :black: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Author: | dabird [ Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:14 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #134 dabird vs sevis |
Nigiri: Even? Player info: Dabird is KGS 3kyu (then 4kyu, then 3kyu, then...). Sevis is 7k KGS. We are playing even with open book (joseki). Hope my etiquette is so far so good! (first Malkovich game). ![]() |
Author: | dabird [ Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:22 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #134 dabird vs sevis |
So I correctly guessed Nigiri; Choosing black, I think I am to set up the board?
This is my favourite opening. Dull perhaps, but I like 3x4 josekis. I feel like I understand the variations the best. |
Author: | Sevis [ Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:25 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #134 dabird vs sevis |
Indeed.
Enjoy the game. ![]() Yay for insanity. I want the craziest game I can get myself, and this seems like a good start. |
Author: | EdLee [ Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:39 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
dabird, dabird wrote: Dull perhaps, but I like 3x4 josekis. I feel like I understand the variations the best. Interesting and impressive, considering Ishida has ~180 pages for 4-4 and ~400 pages for 3-4. ![]() |
Author: | dabird [ Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:49 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #134 dabird vs sevis |
This will be my last post for tonight.
Well that is interesting. White is inviting a cross-corner game. And with this 3x5 in this direction, there is an emphasis (for white) on the bottom. If I take the invitation, what is the best play in the lower left? Tempted to take the cross-corner, I am deciding between a and b
Both a and b are low on the bottom side, where white is high, which is in line with Go theory, I think. b threatens a shimari that aims towards the left side, but a threatens one that makes the bottom area (marked as *) ideal for both sides as extensions. White won't choose a shimari before an open corner is complete, but if I play b, then I think I'm compelling white to play the empty corner, giving me the most choices: "finishing" a corner in the upper right or the lower left or making an approach on one of white's corner stones.
Aiming a shimari towards the left side, 'b', to me looks uninteresting and not liable to make as interesting a puzzle. But I'm probably being over-zealous with my analysis of move 3. ![]() Dumb question: I can read white's thoughts *after* I make my move? |
Author: | dabird [ Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:52 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
EdLee wrote: dabird, dabird wrote: Dull perhaps, but I like 3x4 josekis. I feel like I understand the variations the best. Interesting and impressive, considering Ishida has ~180 pages for 4-4 and ~400 pages for 3-4. ![]() Which only shows how little I really know and how much that I don't know what I don't know! ![]() |
Author: | dabird [ Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:20 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #134 dabird vs sevis |
dabird wrote: Dumb question: I can read white's thoughts *after* I make my move? Doh! Sorry, having read through some Malkovich games; I "get it." The observers get to "be Malkovich" not the players. ![]() |
Author: | EdLee [ Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:11 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
dabird, dabird wrote: how much that I don't know what I don't know! ![]() ![]() |
Author: | dabird [ Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:23 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #134 dabird vs sevis |
Oh shoot, I didn't post my code properly. Sorry! Here is my move that I meant to make on my previous post:
sorry to make you wait! See previous hidden comment. Oops! |
Author: | Sevis [ Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:01 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #134 dabird vs sevis |
No problem. ![]()
Well! A cross fuseki with my stones not on the star points. Not something I particularly like, but heck, that's why I played it. I'm hoping that by playing high, I'll manage to get some influence; I think the worst thing that could happen is that my opponent makes a moyo, which I'd probably not be able to invade. I'd prefer to have the initiative in this game, but being white, I somehow doubt that'll happen anytime soon. I could approach one of the corners, but I don't like this:
I suspect that my opponent will be able to get some profit out of that corner, anyway, and the left looks too black to me. No, given the chance to play cross fuseki, I should play cross fuseki. A 3-4 will provide some nice possibilities for pincers, and I want to practice those. The two 3-4s available look equal to me. |
Author: | dabird [ Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:29 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #134 dabird vs sevis |
Move 5!
Well, I'll put my plan to action. As white, I wouldn't want to make the shimari, since black could take the extension both sides want. But white would be a bit awkward state if he tries to take the extension before the enclosure. |
Author: | Sevis [ Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #134 dabird vs sevis |
Unexpected. I thought black would attack -- I suppose the shimari is well-placed, though. Now, I can either enclose my right, or I can attack -- and I think that attacking is the better option. As I said last time, I want sente, and, well, here I have it. Now I just need to not lose it. By the way, I am going to challenge myself to post the move I expect together with each move of my own. Observers, feel free to complain if I ever forget.
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Author: | EdLee [ Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:31 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
dabird wrote: As white, I wouldn't want to make the shimari, since black could take the extension both sides want. (For beginners.) dabird's reasoning is correct. But white would be a bit awkward state if he tries to take the extension before the enclosure. ![]() |
Author: | EdLee [ Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:35 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Hidden until after the opening. Sevis wrote: I thought black would attack <*snip*> (For beginners.) Common misunderstanding at this level....or I can attack -- and I think that attacking is the better option. There are no weak groups anywhere on the board, so there is nothing to attack. ![]() Approach, yes; attack, no -- two completely different things. |
Author: | dabird [ Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:13 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #134 dabird vs sevis |
Well, if you approach mine, I'll approach yours. Time to pull out the joseki books!
But I'll approach the one that I think I can benefit most from. If white pincers my 3 stone, I will counter pincer, since that gives me a multipurpose move. The pincered 3 stone should be able to handle itself.
On the other hand, if white extends along the top, I can use 3 to build my shimari, 'a', or 'b' if slowing white along the top is warranted (say if 7 is a extension along the top, like 'c').
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Author: | Sevis [ Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:35 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #134 dabird vs sevis |
And whack each other over the head with them, turning the game into a bar brawl? ![]()
So, here comes the reading!
After this q and p feel miai, and both don't feel very nice. I think p is better for white, as it threatens the top-right.
Very peaceful. Probably overly so.
Hm. There's another variation if ![]() ![]()
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
Gote, and feels small. Moreover, black can attack instead of ![]()
Feels no good. And, surprise, surprise, I still like a most. It's probably a cognitive bias or something. Expecting:
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Author: | hman [ Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:21 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Ed, EdLee wrote: (For beginners.) dabird's reasoning is correct. ![]() Thanks for these regular pointers, I really appreciate both the tips and the highlights. As a matter of fact I especially seek out the not-yet-dan-or-almost ![]() ![]() |
Author: | hman [ Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:27 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #134 dabird vs sevis |
Sevis wrote: And whack each other over the head with them, turning the game into a bar brawl? ![]() Not much of a threat. Use a goban (side or angle first), or a full goke as a projectile weapon. ![]() |
Author: | dabird [ Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:23 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #134 dabird vs sevis |
I'll only start swinging if I start to lose by more than 35 points. If I'm losing by 50+, then I'm breaking out the baseball bats. You have been warned. ![]()
Well the idea that I could allow ![]()
Somehow I had decided that white would not make such a close pinch, if he decided to pinch. Given that I have a shimari on the left, regardless of what white does with ![]() My plan is to choose a joseki that settles ![]() ![]()
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