I accept that we can play with dictionaries/databases. Not sure what offline analysis is. No asking pros!
Even.
Good luck and have fun.
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| 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d) http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=4854 |
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| Author: | Laman [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d) |
emerus agreed to play me. the game is even use of joseki dictionaries / game databases / offline analysis to be decided, i am ok with them and can play without them i propose Japanese rules, 6.5 points komi
nigiri (handful of stones inside): 14 |
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| Author: | emerus [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d) |
I accept that we can play with dictionaries/databases. Not sure what offline analysis is. No asking pros! Even.
I've been meaning to try Kobayashi opening for the past few weeks... it never seems to happen though. Good luck and have fun. |
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| Author: | Loons [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d) |
I'm very much looking forward to this game. Have fun! @Emerus Yeah, everyone seems to try some resistance to kobayashi, eh. (Thus my move against pancake...) |
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| Author: | Chew Terr [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d) |
Loons: I blame the Chinese openings. |
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| Author: | Laman [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d) |
emerus: i meant playing out sequences offline, to enhance reading and positional judgment, no discussing with others. it is usually not mentioned but i am not sure what is default have a good game!
i've always wanted to start a game with "Lets rock!" (or "L37Z R0X!") but i suppose it is not a widely recognized polite phrase for this use i go with my usual pattern, allowing tasuki, disallowing mini chinese. next for me is probably komoku in the lower left corner |
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| Author: | emerus [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d) |
Hmmm, still thinking kobayashi. He needs to play a 4-4 stone next or else I'll have to come up with some other fuseki.
If he plays W4, I am a fan of this probing approach as I think it fits my style of playing thick and small scale. |
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| Author: | Laman [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d) |
haven't played a Malkovich game for too long, i still reflexively want to open Hide tags i play most times like this. i dislike playing against mini-Chinese and i don't mind avoiding Kobayashi (though black can aim for a similar formation by high close kakari and then a small-avalanche-like joseki)
only named opening left for black is regular Chinese and it doesn't scare me too much. on the other hand, while such countermeasures are nice, i should also sometimes try to play differently, to be more flexible... |
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| Author: | emerus [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d) |
I want to try something a bit different than normal. So instead of going for a thick split like:
I'm going to try to develop my own areas bit faster.
With 5 here, I'll handle 1 and 3 lightly but without letting white get too thick. Then I'll switch to developing the top. |
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| Author: | Laman [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d) |
i was considering various possibilities, like two space high kakari or just some jump along the side, but database says pros prefer this. after the common joseki black will be more developed, but i will have my cash in the corner and sente to approach the black komoku (or star, i don't know yet) |
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| Author: | emerus [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d) |
trigger(if you pull back)
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| Author: | Laman [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d) |
trigger accepted
this is really something new for me. black stone one space closer would be more familiar, potentially catching a cutting white stone in a ladder. it seems that the black's move is not particularly effective in making him solid locally, nor in claiming the left side, it mainly gets a position in the center a makes possibility of closing off the lower side. so i secure an entrance to the bottom myself and let black show what is his plan with G6 i really wanted to analyse this position myself and i am proud that i've chosen the apparently correct direction of play. i would have played conventionally one space closer, but after i've written the previous paragraph, i consulted Kombilo and josekipedia and according to Cho Hanseung and Takao Shinji, this is the shape, so i adjusted slightly |
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| Author: | emerus [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d) |
This is a joseki that I experimented with a lot. Mostly I like keeping sente early on and feeling in control. So now, I'll approach the upper left and try to develop myself. |
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| Author: | prokofiev [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d) |
I suppose the left side is devalued since White can always force an open skirt by playing B6. I'm not sure that makes enough of a difference to dissuade me from just wanting to play C14, though. Is there a better way to aim for the top than H17, planning on blocking at D17 if black jumps in to the 3-3? Is that joseki okay with black in the upper right corner? I suppose white gets sente, and so can follow it up with O17. My first reaction to this is that it's better to use the sente to play in the lower right instead. My second reaction is that maybe if we play C14, black will just return to the lower right anyway. |
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| Author: | Laman [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d) |
slide along the side, easy. no need for a pincer or anything fancy. black has now two basic possibilities:
neither option is obviously inferior, but i would prefer Diagram 14-1. black doesn't have to hurry to settle his stones and it works nicely with his upper right star the question is what to do next:
a and b are approaches that are never small. i can't say which is better, probably a. the lower side is not so important, because of the facing third line stones. no one can get very much there. but i will have to think about the left side. black group is floating as of now, and black can't it settle very easily locally. however, considering the whole board, another black's move in the area would put some pressure on my upper left corner stones, therefore making him stronger and me weaker and i wouldn't like such a shift of balance |
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| Author: | topazg [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d) |
@Laman: Did you consider the following approaches in the lower right? Which do you prefer?
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| Author: | Laman [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d) |
topazg: topazg wrote: @Laman: Did you consider the following approaches in the lower right? Which do you prefer?
hmm, a is by far and large my favourite komoku kakari, so i didn't consider other alternatives at first. it should be more flexible than b, and i play c only rarely, when i need an easy back-up plan against opponent's pincer (the jump to sansan), but to be honest, i can't give you any strong reasons why a should be better, nor i can claim very strongly that it is better at all. nevertheless, i am currently leaning towards playing on the left side. so few moves and so hard deciding already... i don't wonder that old masters could play a single game for days and weeks PS: however weird looked black's G6 at first, i can feel it working now, limiting me and spreading black's influence. very refreshing idea |
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| Author: | topazg [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d) |
@Laman: Fair enough I think, in that position, I'd probably play "c", as if you get pincered, it doesn't stop the top right 3-3 being invaded, and the san-san joseki can't be that bad for White. You still might get pincered if you approach high, but I guess the theory is so well thrashed out for it that there's plenty of plans to be had for that too.PS I've seen that G6 in quite a few Takemiya games. I think Araban once posted in a thread about the purpose of the move, but I can't seem to find it. |
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| Author: | emerus [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d) |
I'm still trying to play off of my 3-4 in a way as they are usually the focus of fuseki. This prepares to pincer any approach made on the lower right.
These other options are pretty straightforward but leave the right side very easy for white to play on. |
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| Author: | Laman [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d) |
hmmm, either is emerus as good as Lee Sedol, or he has the same game in his database as i have. although black 13 at the star point would still look better to me. now i could pretend to be Cho Hanseung and play the wedge at a, which is a reasonable move, and emerus would have to deviate from the pro game because Cho had won, but we are here supposed to play go, not a chicken game, so i try something else. after much deliberation i decided that even after the usual kakari at b black can get good profit from pincering me (for example by a one space low pincer), where any joseki giving him position facing right side means success for black in my opinion, so i opted for virtually unpincerable two space high approach in the end. i don't mind giving him corner and part of the lower side, right side is important
PS: i hope i haven't switched to my scared mode, as sometimes happens to me when facing situation i am not comfortable in |
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| Author: | emerus [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d) |
I still plan to pincer if he tries helping his group.  I need to make better posts but I'm just drawing blanks when it comes to Go. |
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