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 Post subject: #145 - hailthorn 8k vs Sur 7k
Post #1 Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:11 pm 
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Hello, I'll nigiri. Have a nice game!

Handful of stones in here:
7


Rules:
Japanese Rules
No Outside Sources
Closed Comments
Even Game with 6.5 komi

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 Post subject: Re: #145 - hailthorn 8k vs Sur 7k
Post #2 Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:41 pm 
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Even

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Post #3 Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:50 pm 
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:)

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 Post subject: Re: #145 - hailthorn 8k vs Sur 7k
Post #4 Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:04 pm 
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Well, that means you go first, my friend! Good game, and may the Force be with you! Or something along those lines. :salute:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Captures (B:) (W:)
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #145 - hailthorn 8k vs Sur 7k
Post #5 Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:07 am 
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Really looking forward to this :-) Lets enjoy an interesting game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Captures (B:) (W:)
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


At the last live tournament I met a guy who always opens with chinese opening when black. Sice then I've noticed many people using it and I find it very interesting, so lets try it :-) A lot of thinking time supports this opening I believe. If my opponent denies it, I'll be even more happy.


Last edited by Sur on Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #6 Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:51 am 
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It might be nice (for the audience) to mark the latest move with its number, like :b13:, instead of just :bc:. :)

Sur,
Sur wrote:
If my opponent denies it...
White could do it, but it'd come with a price (like most things in Go :)):
W would have to give up one empty corner on :w2: and/or give up another empty corner on :w4:.

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 Post subject: Re:
Post #7 Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:24 am 
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EdLee wrote:
It might be nice (for the audience) to mark the latest move with its number, like :b13:, instead of just :bc:. :)

Sur,
Sur wrote:
If my opponent denies it...
White could do it, but it'd come with a price (like most things in Go :)):
W would have to give up one empty corner on :w2: and/or give up another empty corner on :w4:.


You are probably right, I edited it. I'm new to that stuff :-)

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Post #8 Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:34 am 
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Thanks, Sur. :)

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 Post subject: Re: #145 - hailthorn 8k vs Sur 7k
Post #9 Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:05 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Captures (B:) (W:)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And so another game begins. Let's see where the path goes this time. It's way to early to predict anything. And it's hard to do so as :white: this early on since my moves will ultimately be decided by :black:'s opening.

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 Post subject: Re: #145 - hailthorn 8k vs Sur 7k
Post #10 Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:08 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Captures (B:) (W:)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Going with my initial plan.

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 Post subject: Re: #145 - hailthorn 8k vs Sur 7k
Post #11 Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:04 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Captures (B:) (W:)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I can see :black: playing several moves now. I'm hoping that it's not the Chinese Opening, but we'll see. That opening seems to be very popular these days, and I'm terrible against it. However, that's why I'm trying :w4:. I think it might be quite beneficial if that's the case. If he plays elsewhere, this is still beneficial for me. I could see C5 or something like that, too. Either way, :black:'s next move will determine the direction the course of my game. Can't wait!

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 Post subject: Re: #145 - hailthorn 8k vs Sur 7k
Post #12 Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:16 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Captures (B:) (W:)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Still going with my plan. Next white's move will be quite difficult. I'm actually giving initiative to my opponent and looking forward to his move. Not that usual in go. :-) I'm looking for an early fight. :-)

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 Post subject: Re: #145 - hailthorn 8k vs Sur 7k
Post #13 Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:57 am 
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Afterthoughts

Now I kind of regret my last move. I would be happier with an approach to :w4:
Now I believe my opponent should play calmly with shimari and switch initiative back to me :-( In this case I will probably play like this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Captures (B:) (W:)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I don't like to be pincered here.
Or maybe looking at it now, I do :-P We'll see.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Captures (B:) (W:)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #145 - hailthorn 8k vs Sur 7k
Post #14 Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:37 pm 
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Sorry for the slow response.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Captures (B:) (W:)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I figured this would be a good place to play, and it's also where I planned to play. I hate playing against the Chinese Opening so this should be an adventure considering my opponent is stronger than me. I'll just play as calmly and concisely as I possibly can! :D

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 Post subject: Re: #145 - hailthorn 8k vs Sur 7k
Post #15 Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:03 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Captures (B:) (W:)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 7 . . . |
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$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Very calm and strong move. I'll play calmly too, I don't want to start a fight unless I'm losing or he makes a mistake :-)

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 Post subject: Re: #145 - hailthorn 8k vs Sur 7k
Post #16 Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:41 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Captures (B:) (W:)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
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$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . , . . . . . 7 . . . |
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$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Looking at the board, I thought, "why not play this move? It does a nice job of expanding :white:'s influence, and it seems pretty safe and stable. I like it. My biggest mistake when it comes to the Chinese opening is that I lose focus and try to overplay. Hopefully I can avoid that this game and get some good stuff going. :batman:

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 Post subject: Re: #145 - hailthorn 8k vs Sur 7k
Post #17 Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:03 pm 
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hailthorn011 wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Captures (B:) (W:)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . , . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]




Normally I would be weary of extending in that direction instead of protecting your side, but i like how this moves doubles as an extension and repressing blacks moyo. I am sorta curious what a stronger player thinks.

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Post #18 Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:27 pm 
Honinbo
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speedchase,
speedchase wrote:
Normally I would be weary of extending in that direction instead of protecting your side...
Protecting which side, speedcase -- do you mean W protecting the bottom?
At these levels, it's no problem at all.
At this level, the game will not be decided by _any_ of the moves so far.
It's way too early.

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Post #19 Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:56 pm 
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EdLee:
EdLee wrote:
speedchase,[hide]
speedchase wrote:
Normally I would be weary of extending in that direction instead of protecting your side...
Protecting which side, speedcase -- do you mean W protecting the bottom?
At these levels, it's no problem at all.
At this level, the game will not be decided by _any_ of the moves so far.
It's way too early.


I was refering to the the fact that it is normal in the orthodox fuseki to attempt to obtain an extension at one of the circles, however I was noting that I liked that combination of an extensions from and enclosure and approach of the Chinese fuseki that was actually played.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Captures (B:) (W:)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . C . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . C . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I am well aware that at the high end of sdk level that fuseki mistakes are not usually relevant to the result unless they are large mistakes, but nonetheless, it is interesting to speculate about the best fuseki moves.

That being said I have not idea which (if either) is actually the best move in the situation.

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Post #20 Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:10 pm 
Honinbo
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speedchase,
Yep, who knows. :mrgreen:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . 3 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . 5 . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . 7 . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . 6 . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

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