That is a basic joseki, but is indeed bad for black as white gets a strong group at o17 making k16 looks bad. I think the game result is even worse though as white now has a strong group in black's moyo. Black's last move could have been p16 (white can't block or black brings out the ladder stone) to munch o17 and make 4th line territory on the top linking up to k16. That's probably more important than connecting to r12 pincer.

But the real problem was earlier. White's double approach at o17 is an overplay, which black can punish by playing r17. White can cover black, but then black cuts and white has 2 weak groups, whilst black is alive in the corner.

I really don't know what's best here. Q14 would make a terrible shape, so that's out of the question for me. Q12 and tenuki were my other considerations.

What I'm thinking about.

1. Can I tenuki here? My group is stable so I think yes. However, I am not sure whether I should take the corner. Am inclined to think no. BLack can't get in there now and I can respond if I need to later. I think playing a move in the corner is slow. But whenever I come down on one side of this issue or the other I am always wrong.

2. Even if I can tenuki, his group has no base on the side. So should I chase it? Like maybe M17 or something builds my top and I think he has to settle himself somehow.

3. If I should tenuki, which corner should I approach? Low approach to the LR corner seems to coordinate with my other stones, but not perfectly. Maybe low approach and then just back off to the star point? That seems to close to the side group. Maybe slide and then play the small knight to the 4th line? That leaves a gap but I am settled on both sides. Or maybe approach the 3-3 on the other side.

So, I don't really know what to do here.

I don't think I need another move in the corner. If he makes another move there it will be his sente, but I am alive and I don't see a move in the corner that isn't gote, or do I? Where is W going to settle this group? Q18 and M18?

I am thinking Q18 myself is a good move. It takes territory in the corner, and removes part of W's potential base. If I were W I would feel that I have to do something with this group, so it's probably sente.

I'm prepared to let W have the R13 stones if necessary to defend those cutting points, so Q18 helps with that although I don't think it is strictly necessary.

I don't see any particular reason to take the ko--I'm alive and it doesn't seem to matter much to him whether he wins or loses it.

The corner approaches are there but I can play it anytime and since they are 3-3 or 4-4 they aren't as big, I think, as something urgent.

M17 is same idea but not as good.

I've looked this on and off for a couple of days. Short of consulting outside sources or whatever, I can't see how I'm going to find a different move, and the point of this game is to get feedback on how/what I think, so I think that Q18 is better than the corner approaches and I don't see a better tenuki, so I'm going to play Q18. Maybe it is overkill for the corner but those are my reasons for doing it.

I'm fairly happy with the situation in the upper right, so time to take my sente and put it to use elsewhere. I chose this move, because I think it has a nice followup (perhaps not immediately) at G4. I also thought about K4 and L3, but I liked this best.

If he plays in the G4 area, I will ignore it and turn my attention to upper left corner (C14, F16 or F17). If he plays around D10, I may play R9, or something in the upper left, but I haven't decided yet.

So, I didn't expect him to tenuki but continuing to chase with M17 is a vice of mine and it never really seems to work out for me. That seems like a small point, and that move of his seems like a reasonably big size move. W is out, so if I play M17 and he plays another tenuki I am behind then, I think.

So I want to approach one of the corners and the 3-3 corner seems bigger and like it coordinates better with my stones.

I'm playing the low 1-space approach because I didn't like the look of what happened if he built a north-south wall instead of an east-west wall, which I would've hoped for. Then his stone on the bottom centre limits my potential there and he still gets his 3rd line territory, though maybe that is a mistake for W and I had nothing to worry about. Anyway, I am more comfortable with this.

:w18: was beyond slow. White Even if white wants to protect the cutting point, this was a very slow way to do it.

I did have some thoughts about tenuki and kakari in the upper left corner, but I decided to follow my first instinct.

My instinct tells me to play my own knight's move to E6, but "flying stones" is a bit of a thing I do and since I'm not really putting any pressure on him with that move I am scared that he can play next along the left and leave me with no base. Perhaps my instincts are wrong, this move feels slow to me, but it is solid and it can't be that terrible.

Ok, let's see if he wants to pincer again.

I see that he's going to 2-space jump down toward my side stones here and I am not incredibly comfortable but I don't feel like there are any complicated tactics here--If it was wrong to approach the 3-3 stone bc he can make this approach I will have learned something bc the point seems pretty subtle for my current level, and so the only plausible moves are responding to this or expanding my base on the side. This looks obviously bigger and I can't see why I would do anything else. I am hoping that he will play a 2-space jump with or without sliding and then I will have sente and I will probably have to do something about those side stones.

I'm happy with this development. If he follows the joseki, so will I, and will be happy with the result:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm21 Captures: White: 1 Black: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 . X . . . . . X . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

He will have sente though.

Hmm. Responding at C17 is the kind of automatic play I make without thinking, especially in live games when the clock is ticking, but I have that stone at K16. Maybe I can help my left side stones with C11 or attack W's weak group with M17 or play in the biggest area down the right side and help my 2 stones on the right. I need to think this over.

This could be wrong, and it looks like a somewhat small move, and I see that my stones are all low here, but here are my reasons: If I play C17 W will settle himself by playing where I'm playing, and it feels like I then need to respond with my left side group as there are then strong stones on each side. By playing here myself, W still settles himself in the corner (if he jumps I will play C17 myself) but my left side stones are settled and although I am not sure whether I can ignore W's C17 yet (I need to think about whether I need to block him from coming further into the top), if I don't have to respond on top I have sente to play down the right side or M17 (I don't think it's time to invade the bottom, right side is biggest empty area but maybe M17 can be urgent if I play there). This exchange seems better for me than responding at C17 and having to do something with my left side group.

I thought he might do that. Well, I'll take the corner then. I may have lost a bit in this trade, but I didn't like

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm21 Captures: White: 1 Black: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O 8 . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

either.

I have been trying to figure out if I now need to block here. The reason I have had a problem with doing it is because a) I can't figure out whether it's gote or not; b) I am not sure whether that matters bc I am pretty sure that I need another move here to settle my stones on top and c) it makes F17 look weird to me. I was looking at just trying to directly prevent the 3-space invasion on top and letting W come in with his corner group one more move, but H16 and K17 seem overconcentrated and M17 doesn't really do the job. If W gets an extra move in the corner and then invades at H17 I feel I am in real trouble. If I play here at least I know I will be alive on top and I will see if W feels compelled to escape with his UL group. If he takes sente and plays somewhere else I feel that I am clearly behind and will have to take a risk. Maybe I needed to take a risk here.