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 Post subject: Re: 167 - Boidhre vs Celebrir
Post #41 Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:06 am 
Lives in gote
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O 7 O . X O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X O X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X O O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Could it be that I get sente here ? Oo This move only seems to take a few points in exchange for sente which seems to be much bigger currently.

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 Post subject: Re: 167 - Boidhre vs Celebrir
Post #42 Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:39 am 
Oza

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O 7 O . X O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X O X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 8 X O O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Forced.

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 Post subject: Re: 167 - Boidhre vs Celebrir
Post #43 Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:59 am 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 353
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Universal go server handle: Celebrir
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . O . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O O . X O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X O X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X X O O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think the worst that can happen is this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Dia.4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . O 5 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O O 6 X O 3 . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X O X 2 4 . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X X O O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But I don't think this fight can be good for B. This doesn't work:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Dia. 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X 9 X 8 O 5 1 6 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O O 7 X O 4 . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X O X 2 3 . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X X O O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


My initial plan was to tennuki completly, but then I got this idea:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Dia. 6
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . O . . . . . . 1 3 4 . |
$$ | . . . . X O O O . X O . . O . . 2 6 . |
$$ | . . . X . O X O X , . . . . . X . a . |
$$ | . . . . . X X X O O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Of course there are several possibilities for :b6: My intention is that he has to defend the corner or I'll get the move at 'a' Besides this should help me even more with the fight at Dia. 4

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 Post subject: Re: 167 - Boidhre vs Celebrir
Post #44 Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:05 am 
Oza

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . O . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O O . X O . . O . . 0 . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X O X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X X O O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


"Joseki" shape for me that I'm familiar enough with. Am trying to keep things simple, if I overcomplicate then it is Celebrir who has the advantage I think.

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 Post subject: Re: 167 - Boidhre vs Celebrir
Post #45 Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:09 am 
Tengen

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Is this wishful thinking? After :w23: should black play towards the outside at a or b?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Dia. 6
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . O . . . . . . 1 3 4 . |
$$ | . . . . X O O O . X O . . O . . 2 6 . |
$$ | . . . X . O X O X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X X O O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Of course there are several possibilities for :b6: My intention is that he has to defend the corner or I'll get the move at 'a' Besides this should help me even more with the fight at Dia. 4

_________________
Occupy Babel!

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 Post subject: Re: 167 - Boidhre vs Celebrir
Post #46 Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:41 am 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 353
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Universal go server handle: Celebrir
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Prisoners: W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . O . . . . . . O 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O O . X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X O X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X X O O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Just following my plan. If he tennuks here, I'll try to attack his group for some complications.

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 Post subject: Re: 167 - Boidhre vs Celebrir
Post #47 Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:48 am 
Oza

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Prisoners: W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . O . . . . . . O 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O O . X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X O X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X X O O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


GoGoD has this 5 times more common in this corner position than blocking at s18. 10 games versus 2. Gives me fairly solid territory on the right side, enough eyespace while giving up the corner. I prefer this to blocking and inviting White to invade the left side.

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Post #48 Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:16 pm 
Honinbo
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hyperpape,
hyperpape wrote:
After :w3: should black play towards the outside...?
If :b4: blocks, then first feeling is split W!
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . O . . . . . . 1 3 4 . |
$$ | . . . . X O O O . X O . . O . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X O X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X X O O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . 6 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
But in the real game the right side looks nice for B. ( :w31: feels slow and gote; :b32: seems right idea.)

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 Post subject: Re: 167 - Boidhre vs Celebrir
Post #49 Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:07 pm 
Oza

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As I've become very high I'm going to put this game on hold for the moment. Sorry Celebrir and those waiting for my next blunder. :)

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 Post subject: Re: 167 - Boidhre vs Celebrir
Post #50 Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:29 am 
Lives in gote
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Universal go server handle: Celebrir
No problem, I'm the one who makes you waiting more... I'll play my next move now, just respond whenever you want (Maybe leave me a message somewhere if I don't have other active games here)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Prisoners: W:0 B:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . O . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O O . X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X O X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X X O O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think his move was very good because he didn't follow my plan but reinforced his group. I'll still try to attack it. I think this is the right point to attack because a very complex fight might come up from this and complications are what I want.

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