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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #121 Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:17 pm 
Tengen

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm62
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . 1 . . 5 . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . 2 X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm62
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . 7 8 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . 1 . . 5 6 . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . 2 X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
My reading says this double hane line goes south for him, though it can get pretty hairy.

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #122 Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:12 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm62
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . 1 . . 5 6 . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . 2 X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't think I have a choice but to cut white off here.
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #123 Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:42 am 
Tengen

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OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm68
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
As per the last post.

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #124 Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:56 pm 
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[go]$$Wm68
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Tough to decide between this hane and the cut, but with the cut if white plays atari as below I don't seem to have a good answer (if I play a then white takes at b and there's no way to kill white inside, if I play b then white breaks through and it's not clear I have enough in the middle). This way is a bit more dangerous (my lower group may get cut off) but it's more complicated and more oriented towards the centre.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm68
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . 3 . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . b 2 1 a . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


p.s. Would appreciate any input regarding the previous moves or the current situation. Feel free to ask questions or request clarification as well :)
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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #125 Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:36 pm 
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A brief comment about move 39 now that I'm looking over the game again:

I'm no longer sure why I played it instead of the second-line extend now - I can't seem to find anything that looks particularly bad after the extend and the game move was so costly in terms of both points and group stability XD
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #126 Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:13 pm 
Tengen

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm68
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . 3 . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Someone is wrong about something. I hope it's my opponent.

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Offline jts
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #127 Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:56 pm 
Oza
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@hyperpape

What are we going to see if you're right?
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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #128 Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:05 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm68
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not playing the other atari because white will connect and no way to seal.
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #129 Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:08 pm 
Tengen

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@jts
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm68
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . 5 3 8 O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . 1 2 6 7 . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X 4 O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . . X . a O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Whether he has to play :b71: is the key point. I don't actually think Black can get anywhere cutting, so in a sense, I should be hoping for that. After the sequence I've shown, I think White is still fine, so I don't really think Black should play it. So I don't really know what I'm hoping for or expecting. I guess it's more of a "I hope I'm not missing something feeling.

On second thought, I think I was missing something, at a.

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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #130 Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:08 pm 
Tengen

Posts: 4380
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm68
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . 5 1 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #131 Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:50 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm68
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . 5 1 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X 6 O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | hol
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


To be honest the situation is outside of my reading ability, so I can't really justify my choice versus alternatives (the rough idea is that I don't like the counteratari if I play an atari, but that may in fact be a better result than this more aggressive connect). I hope to cut white off without leaving too much eyeshape by threatening white's corner, but the corner is quite strong because it has the ability to capture the second line stone and so I'm not sure what will happen XD
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #132 Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:07 pm 
Tengen

Posts: 4380
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm68
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . 5 1 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X 6 O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Bad shape, but it might just work.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X O 3 O 8 . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X 2 4 5 . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O 7 6 . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . 1 X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . 9 . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Lots of very complicated things going on here. Here's a trade that would be awesome (= will never happen)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . 7 . 5 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . c 9 8 6 X O 2 O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . b 0 O O X 4 . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O a . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . 1 X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Cute little loose ladder, but :b4: should be above :b2:, and white loses out then, I think.

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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #133 Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:15 pm 
Tengen

Posts: 4380
Location: North Carolina
Liked others: 499
Was liked: 733
Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm74
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm74
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . 2 X O . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This is the most complicated move. I can't say I know how it will turn out--many options lead to some kind of big trade.

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #134 Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:59 pm 
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Rank: OGS 2d
KGS: illluck
Tygem: Trickprey
OGS: illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm74
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . 2 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think this is the only reasonable move. I did consider also the push below, but that feels slightly aji-keshi. I think now I'll probably have to let go of the lower right group if I want to maintain my centre, but I'll have to be careful because if that's captured it will be hard to shut white in.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm74
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . 4 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X O 5 O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X 2 3 . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #135 Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:18 am 
Tengen

Posts: 4380
Location: North Carolina
Liked others: 499
Was liked: 733
Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm74
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . 2 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X 3 . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Forced. With the immediate cut, Black takes the corner, starting at a.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm74
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . 2 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X O a O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
a is possible, but I'd rather take a liberty from the black group. The atari he has doesn't help him much, I think.

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #136 Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:15 pm 
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KGS: illluck
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OGS: illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm74
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . 2 1 4 . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X O 5 O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X 3 . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . 6 X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Please feel free to reject trigger.

Forcing before living. My first feeling is that white should have just cut as then I might not have time to protect lower right. However, this is still a bit too complicated for me to tell for sure.
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #137 Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:25 pm 
Tengen

Posts: 4380
Location: North Carolina
Liked others: 499
Was liked: 733
Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm80
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trigger:
If you atari in either direction, I will extend.

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #138 Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:55 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 1223
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Rank: OGS 2d
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Tygem: Trickprey
OGS: illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm80
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . 2 . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trigger:
As below:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm80
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1 X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . 4 . X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . 2 . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . . O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not trigger:
Just read the trigger and was surprised that white thought I might atari. My main choices here are the empty triangle and this jump. The advantage of the empty triangle is that white's cutting stone has fewer liberties, but if white keeps extending I am still forced to keep extending so I have to play the jump here in order to avoid making white stronger. Now I expect white to extend out and force me to bamboo.
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Offline Tryss
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #139 Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:07 pm 
Lives in gote

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KGS: Tryss
Obs only :
Is this sequence possible for white? :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 O X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . 3 2 X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . 7 X 1 X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . 8 O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . O . 9 O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O O O O X O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X X X X X O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . O X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . a . O X O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . 3 1 X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . 4 O 2 O O X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . b b X X . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


a capture, b connect or live


Now that doesn't change the fact that black center is huge and very solid, so even if the sequence work, it's probably bad (unless white can kill the lower group if black let white play
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: #171 Hyperpape vs. illluck
Post #140 Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:35 pm 
Lives in sente
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Wbaduk: redundant
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OGS: redundant
@illuck
I doubt white's trigger was anything he thought you would play, but in the off case you did, it would speed up the game.
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Board index » L19²GO (Malkovich) » 1-on-1 Malkovich games

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