Takemiya Masaki is a famous pro who invented that move, or at least its regular use at a high level. He is known for playing sanrensei as black, large moyos, being unconcerned about the early profit his opponents make, tenuki, making unconventionally center-oriented yet equitable exchanges, and is considered the master of the center of the go board. He is popular among amateurs and was one of the absolute strongest players in the world a couple decades ago, which is not to say that he isn't strong today. He is inimitable but that doesn't stop many from trying. Interestingly, I have read that professionals respect him most for his play as white, where his style does not revolve around sanrensei and large moyos.
Not showing any reading right now because this move was mainly based on feeling. I feel like he is supposed to have this area to build from, so I will take it. Ideally I would like to develop faster than he does while limiting how much he can gain with his thick positions. Right now his board position feels oriented towards the center of the left side of the board. I think this game actually closer than it looks because his stones feel less efficient overall but I feel like my positions have some bad aji/weaknesses whereas his are positioned well to threaten mine and the board state will naturally sway towards him at some point with proper play. I think he can take my top territory and give me thickness, he can keep my left group low and get a strong position in the center, etc.
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(Edit: This was written before konfuzed moved) Continuing from my previous post: I decided invading white's left side didn't work so I needed to decide on another plan of action. My main goals were:
-Gaining sente, because there are still a lot of big points left on the board and I can't afford to let black keep taking them. -Defending my investment in the corner (which doesn't necessarily mean territory) -Taking a nice chunk of the bottom side. -Not allowing black to make lot's of territory while fixing his weaknesses on the side. -Leaving the possibility of attacking black's side later.
Achieving all of those seems impossible, but I needed to achieve as many as possible. Below are some possibilities I considered.
The obvious answer, but black's territory is now secure and large. I'm not really sure this wasn't the better move, since it's sente and good preparation for an approach on the bottom right, but I black could play slightly differently.
Black's wall works well with the marked stone, but white has no corresponding stone at a. It's a bad result locally and it's gote.
Finally I came to the move I actually played. I thought it threatened to cut, but I can't remember the sequence right now. Hopefully that's just because I'm tired... If it does then it's a strong sente, and it also seems to work reasonably well with regards to defending the corner and taking the bottom side.
I can't find the cutting sequence I thought I had earlier, so it was probably a mistake. I think I've been in a bit of a panic since I realised Q10 was a mistake and have been desperately looking for a way to make up for that, so I'm just going to try and forget everything I thought up till now and reavaluate the board position.
was a mistake because it allowed , but it did have some value; it stops black linking up and creating a large moyo and seems likely to result in some good territory on the right side. I think I was too focused on what I lost on the top and forgot about the compensation I'm going to get on the right.
works well with , but for just two lone stones next to a live enemy group, I think it is too far away. A move at "a" would solve this and be very good for black.
ended up small and mostly boxed in, but thanks to that exchange it is now the only settled group on the board, and though it has some weaknesses ( can descend at H18 in sente, for example), this could be very significant if any fights break out in the area.
seems likely to result in a lot of territory for black, but the stones are quite widely spaced, and unlike and , there doesn't seem to be a single move to sort this. Black is going to need to patch this up as part of the natural progression of the game.
I keep alternating between thinking this was a terrible idea and then deciding I like it after all. It's not exactly taking loads of territory, but it seems like it will be useful for any fights that might erupt in the area, and combined with , makes seem somewhat uncomfortable.
is a nice position with lots of breathing space. Both stones can easily afford to be cut so black can expect some good territory in the area.
I still don't know what to make of this. I tried playing it in some games, but...
.....
There seems to be a pretty clear pattern here, and it makes it much easier for me to decide my next move. Black is ahead but has more weaknesses. I may not be able to attack them now, but if I play solidly and end the opening with some strong groups, I think I will be in a good position to go on the offensive in the middle game. With that in mind, I think it's time to decide on my move.
If I want to settle another of my groups it seems best to do it by approaching the bottom right, since I'm not really expecting to be able to attack it later. Right now approaching from either side seems possible, but I'll consider the approach from the right first.
The marked white stone is too close, but I think I can omit seven because of it. In which case this looks good for white. It's sente and a move at a looks like it would work well with the white stones on the left to reduce black's moyo.
I'm not sure about this. My goal is to play solidly, but the marked white stone is slightly too far away. "a" is a possible extra move that makes the distance seem appropriate, and it is quite big, but I think sente is more important here. I don't think this sequence is as good for black either though, so I think I can be happy with it.
Overall I think the approach from the right works well, but I'll have a look at the left as well.
This strengthens the marked white stones and makes a nice chunk of territory, which is good, but I don't think it's as good as the other approach because the Q10 stone seems more important right now. The marked stones are ready for a fight, but the Q10 stone is alone, and an approach on it would force me to move in the other direction to make a base and allow black to strengthen himself on both sides. For example
It might not be that bad, since responding my approach on the bottom is also big, but after that I don't think I can settle Q10 so easily because the approach on the bottom right corner is no longer as threatening.
The large knight looks like it makes better shape, and gives him a worse result if he tries to split the corner in the typical way. Plus if he tenukis I can make a large corner here later. I am worried about him being able to press down on my bottom and left groups. Somehow when I look at this board I think "He can gain a very substantial center if I'm not careful". I feel like I have no groups that are critically weak, but I have several places where he stands to make significant gains.
I'm going to resist the temptation to re-think this. I have a plan so I'm just going to stick to it. Obviously there are some differences between what he played and the slightly closer extensions at O3 or 4, but they don't really effect this move.
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edit: Just to avoid confusion I figured I should mention that I already posted my move above.
I suppose I should explain the point of this move specifically, and why I think it's a good idea. Obviously I don't claim to understand joseki (which I think this is), so just take this as an explanation of why I played this move.
Like I said earlier, one of my main goals at the moment is to make strong groups, but even if it wasn't settling this group would still seem important. S4 seems like the best way to do that because it moves in on what would otherwise be black's territory and forces black's reply at R3. Apart from the obvious benifit of being sente, this exchange is good because white's gain is black's loss, and so effectively double its face value. Not only that, but a move from black to seal off the corner would not only be worth a lot of points, it would also weaken white's group on the side.
Edit: From konfuzed's play so far, I suspect he might just tenuki, but if he does I will can just take the corner.
I want to try this move badly, because it popped into my head and I want to see how it would work. It doesn't look like anything I've seen, but I think it might help with both the top-right corner and the top middle and expand well?
I would love to just play the 3-3 here in the normal joseki, but the facts that he just played the slide in the bottom right and that this large knight version of the slide is slightly worse for him than the small knight version have no impact on where the biggest move on the board for me is, so I must look everywhere. Thing is, if he takes my 3-3 my group is still not in too much danger.
I mentioned Takemiya earlier. He refers to his play not as "Cosmic Style", but "Natural Style" and thinks people should play the moves their heart wants to see, as opposed to his criticism of Kobayashi's style as "subway go", where you get to where you needed to go but don't see anything worthwhile along the way. If my goal on a micro scale is to win this game of go, my goal on a macro scale is to have fun, improve my thinking, and learn more about the game of go. Therefore I will play the move that came from my head rather than the move that I have seen others play.
Apparently other people don't find the formation in the top right as interesting as I do!
I looked around a bit but the closest thing I could find to it is the second example here on sensei's library. The one in this game has an interesting corner too though, or at least I think so.
I believe this is supposed to be the standard continuation here by the way. I do not think I would play it if I was white though. Which may mean I am too weak to evaluate the position properly.
I think his move makes sense. My choices are to withdraw from C6 with a knights move or take the corner. Now that he took that extension away I think I should take the corner. Next he might pincer my C6 stone. Most likely he will try to extend up the right side of the board. I guess he could possibly secure his bottom left corner too.
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These are my thoughts from my last move. I've avoided looking at what konfuzed has posted so that his most recent move (if he's posted it yet) doesn't affect my thoughts.
So like I said earlier my move at S4 was threatening to take the corner, and that's what I intended to do if he tenukied. I decided to do something different instead, but I think it's important to note that I still consider this a follow-up to S4. I've learned the hard way that it's very important that when you threaten to do something you have to be willing to follow up on it. If you're not and your opponent decides to ignore the threat, there's a good chance he'll get to come back and defend it later. If you follow through then it becomes a trade: your profit locally for your opponents profit elsewhere. If you let him draw you in to his choice of move, then he may get to play there for free.
With that in mind, and especially considering that Konfuzed's move doesn't seem to threaten much, it seemed obvious that I should take the corner. If following up on S4 is a mistake then playing S4 in the first place was an even bigger mistake, but even if taking the corner wasn't big enough to warrant S4, I think I should take what profit I can now that I've played it. That being said though, I looked at the situation and I realised that black had a pretty good reply to me taking the corner.
Normally extending probably wouldn't be a good idea because it allows white to attack the marked black stone, but in this case it also weakens the marked white stones, which are a lot more important for a few reasons, but most importantly, the black stone is only part of black's group, but white's two stones are the entirety of the white group. (Edit: Maybe I was wrong about this; the black stones look low and unhappy, and the marked white stones still aren't in any danger.)
So I don't like the exchange of white R3 for Black G3, but I think approaching from the other side still takes advantage of S4 because it makes taking the corner more important. If black black doesn't answer white's move in the corner, then an attack cutting off the marked black stone also threatens the life of the K3 and N3 stones.
Black decides to avoid letting white take the corner in sente and replies to by defending the corner in gote. I'm not sure who this series of exchanges favours, so I'm not dissatisfied with this. and seem about equal but it's hard to say how much and are worth.
Black decides to take another big point and white gets to take the corner in sente. I don't like letting black take more elsewhere but the exchange of for is very good for white, and white ends up with sente.
Black just ignores everything and white goes to town on his group. Obviously Konfuzed isn't going to be quite so passive in his moves elsewhere, but I think if you view each number move as stages of play (so white might reply to black's tenukis) then this is a good indication of what I expect.
I am only superficially acquainted with tewari analysis, but something that occurred to me is that if we had simply exchanged stones in the bottom right first, then made the plays at h3 and o17, h3 would look a little weird to me. Partly because it is pressuring a strong group even though there is a more attackable group he can pressure on the other side. O17, by contrast, may or may not be a good move, but I don't believe that changing the move order makes it look any better or worse.
There are a lot of places I really want to play right now, but I think this is the most important because not only is the right side still relatively open, It's next to where black is strongest and I am weakest. The ideal for black right now is to develop his top side by threatening my weakness, which could easily be achieved simply by approaching at R12
At which point I realised that didn't quite work so well as I'd thought:
White has the invasion at "a" still, and though that probably means black will connect up and get a lot of influenceI think that is counterable.
So I decided to attach to the C6 stone as I think this is either likely to result in me taking a huge amount of territory if he gives it up (so I guess he won't) or letting him live in the corner in exchange for building influence to attack the two nearby black groups and counter black's influence at the top if he plays that way.
I said I expected a pincer but this attachment looks better. I guess that's something that comes with experience. Responding to an attachment is generally urgent but I don't see any particular response in this specific scenario that turns out particularly well or looks to be worth more than the other big points on the board. He can spend moves taking points here if he wants to; there are still places for me to make my own points as compensation. Whatever aji I have there won't be going away until he spends moves fixing it.The top right just looks important to me. He has a group in the bottom right that I may be able to invade, attack, or pressure a bit, and I can build more influence/ a bit of a moyo for myself.
Firstly, mutual destruction isn't an option here because black has much more to gain on the right. I was going to just go ahead and play the sequence I planned earlier, but then I remembered why I wanted to avoid it.
This looks pretty bad, but I think defending with would be too passive here. I can't afford to let black take such huge profit on the top so I guess I am just going to have to play the sequence, which may not be too bad. is the kind of invasion that's just too complicated for me to read out properly, but I think it could turn out okay, and as behind as I am, I should be looking for fights, not backing down from them. Besides, I've been playing on Tygem.
Normally in this situation I would like to extend from the stone he clamps, but I don't think extending works well here either right away or after he ataris me. I dont' want to have to hane and give him extreme strength by sacrificing either. I think he is getting more and fixing more weaknesses overall than me?
EDIT: Maybe it would've been fine if I just sort of left the stone he clamped as aji and tried to build up a moyo in the center. or something
So what happens from here? I see 4 interesting points for me. a gets me huge points. b threatens to split his group. c would be to try to seal his group and make points with my bottom group but I think the fight favors him if he resists. d can get me a lot of points and make b rather severe? Maybe he will get a better result here but I think I can probably make something work. I consider this game close but it feels like it could swing in either direction by a lot to me.
Also, I haven't forgot about the bottom left. I think I can still do something there but not anything worth abandoning this situation for.
I want to play in all 3 places so bad! The josekis that "a" leads to are complicated enough even without me having these extra stones other than my 6-4 that I'm trying to maximise the efficiency of. I have no idea which of these things to play first to get the best result. If my past decisions are any indication you can expect "a" because that is the move I find most interesting at the moment. But part of me wants to probe around "b" first, maybe see if I can get c in sente. Another part of me wants to say that I can get thickness on top first that will help me with the lower fight.
My own stones can get weak here too! It looks like I am in an offensive position but we are both at serious risk here. There are too many josekis and varations to list.
I guess this variation is probably fine for me since I can run to the center and he has to cover his weaknesses, it just feels like the game can explode in all sorts of crazy ways if I create a big fight in this corner.
Last edited by konfuzed on Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Who am I kidding? I am already mentally committed to this as the most interesting move in the board.
EDIT: Starting to wish I had played this one instead. Maybe I'm wrong, but this move feels potentially game-winning to me. I didn't think of it because I am not used to having this 6-3 stone, and it changes things.
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konfuzed
If it does then it's a strong sente, and it also seems to work reasonably well with regards to defending the corner and taking the bottom side.
was a mistake because it allowed 
, but it did have some value; it stops black linking up and creating a large moyo and seems likely to result in some good territory on the right side. I think I was too focused on what I lost on the top and forgot about the compensation I'm going to get on the right.
, but for just two lone stones next to a live enemy group, I think it is too far away. A move at "a" would solve this and be very good for black.
ended up small and mostly boxed in, but thanks to that exchange it is now the only settled group on the board, and though it has some weaknesses ( 
seems likely to result in a lot of territory for black, but the stones are quite widely spaced, and unlike 
, there doesn't seem to be a single move to sort this. Black is going to need to patch this up as part of the natural progression of the game.
I keep alternating between thinking this was a terrible idea and then deciding I like it after all. It's not exactly taking loads of territory, but it seems like it will be useful for any fights that might erupt in the area, and combined with 
is a nice position with lots of breathing space. Both stones can easily afford to be cut so black can expect some good territory in the area.
for 
Maybe I'm wrong, but this move feels potentially game-winning to me. I didn't think of it because I am not used to having this 6-3 stone, and it changes things.