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 Post subject: Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Post #61 Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:29 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 734
Liked others: 683
Was liked: 138
Rank: Washed up never was
Universal go server handle: Splatted
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm26 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . X 7 . |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . , O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Maybe something like this

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . X 1 . |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . 4 O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


My goal is just to live here, but getting sente also seems to be huge at the moment. I'll look at it in more detail once I not how black's going to fight the corner.


Quote:
Image

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Post #62 Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:15 pm 
Lives with ko
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Posts: 125
Liked others: 31
Was liked: 8
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm26 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . 8 O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As I said I believe my last move was a mistake. I made this one because the other responses seem too passive given my stones surrounding the corner, and tenuki would drastically contradict my last move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm26 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . b X 7 . |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . a O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Post #63 Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:19 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 734
Liked others: 683
Was liked: 138
Rank: Washed up never was
Universal go server handle: Splatted
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm26 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . 4 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Edit: Wait, is that even alive...? I shouldn't be making moves at midnight. :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Post #64 Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:44 pm 
Oza
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Ack. Atari first!


This post by jts was liked by: Splatted
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 Post subject: Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Post #65 Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:06 am 
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Looks like I just have to add an extra move to live.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . 4 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So not sente, but not a disaster. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Post #66 Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:13 am 
Lives with ko
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I did not expect that move. Don't have time to read this well yet. Instinct points to these:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm26 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . b a . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Post #67 Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:30 pm 
Lives with ko
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Sorry for the wait, struggling with a very time-intensive class.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm35 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . X O . |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Don't really have time to read too well. I read a little bit and this looked more interesting, but potentially riskier, than extending. If he wants to live in the corner, I think he gets a small corner and sente and I get the outside. I think he could also resist but it would give him a weak group. If he pressures my iron pillar to make eyespace his other group may get more attackable. He may very well come up with something I didn't look at though, so I guess I'll just wait and see.

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 Post subject: Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Post #68 Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:21 am 
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No problem. I'm pretty busy at the moment as well.
It looks like I might not even be able to live in the corner.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X 3 |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . 2 X O 7 |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O 6 . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



If I atari on the other side...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . b 1 X 4 |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . 2 X O 5 |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O a . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This looks alive with "a" and "b" miai for a second eye, but I can't allow the black to descend at S12 without defending my bottom right group, so I need to look at how that will affect the fight in the corner.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O 5 8 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X 3 . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 4 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


That's okay

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . B X O O |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X 4 . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And the corner dies. I need to think about if there's a better line or if I can afford to skip 4.

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 Post subject: Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Post #69 Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:30 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 734
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Was liked: 138
Rank: Washed up never was
Universal go server handle: Splatted
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm35 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X. . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . 3 X O . |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Conditional move also included.

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 Post subject: Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Post #70 Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:48 pm 
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[go]$$Bcm35 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 5 |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think extending is logical to mess with his eyespace

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 Post subject: Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Post #71 Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:10 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm35 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O 6 |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Post #72 Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:30 pm 
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Conditional move included
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm35 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 8 |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O 7 . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Post #73 Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:56 pm 
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Conditional move accepted but I need to think about my next one.

I'm trying to see if there are any kikashi I can make before living. I'd really like to be able to make use of the R15 aji to strengthen the R11 stones.

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 Post subject: Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Post #74 Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:22 pm 
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General Game related comment:

I'm just playing the sequence I posted earlier, so there's not much to say about that, but I think I should probably have explained more about the decision to invade in the first place, because recognising the value of these seemingly tiny invasions is something that I used to really struggle with.

It comes down to a concept that is at the heart of go: Exchanges. One of the first things I read when returning to go after a 2 year break was the sensei's library page on ippoji. It completely changed the way I thought when playing the game because I used to think of invasions as basically just profit. i.e The invader takes territory that would have belonged to the other player, and they are either successful and live, or the other player fights them off and they die. Now I realise that they are much more complicated than that.

The most obvious example is the 3-3 invasion of a 4-4 stone. I'm sure everyone knows that the invader takes territory while the invadee (my spell-checker says that's not a word but it should be so I'm leaving it in :mad: ) builds thickness. A direct invasion is usually considered a bad ides, so let's say they play joseki like below:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]B Corner
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O X . . . .
$$ | . . O X X O . X .
$$ | . . O X . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


Black exchanged the corner for the side, and the pros say the result is about equal, so how much was the invasion worth? If black gained exactly as much as white did, then the value of the invasion was 0 points. Obviously it depends on the whole board situation, and it's much better than letting black take the whole lot (maybe that means not invading is worth -5 points(random number) or invading is worth +5 points), but because both players profit from almost any invasion, the actual value of most invasions is surprisingly small.

I think this is one reason why pro games are often so close, but it's all too easy to create a situation in which one player stands to gain much more from an invasion than the other. This is why, when trying to make territory, I aways ask myself "what do I get if my opponent invades here". If the answer is f@#k all in gote, then it's a very bad move, because then your opponent's invasion becomes worth a lot more. Let's go back to a 3-3 invasion of a 4-4 stone. This is a pretty extreme example, but it's the kind of situation that does crop up in games I play (which probably says awful things about my playing).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]B Corner
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . a . . . . X O
$$ | . . . X . . . X O
$$ | . . . . . . . X O
$$ | . . . . . . . X O
$$ | . . . X . . X O .
$$ | . . . . . . X O .
$$ | . . . . . . X O .[/go]


How much is an invasion at "a" worth here? It's worth a huge amount for two reasons.

1) Any thickness black builds is useless, so any territory white makes is pure profit.
2) With another stone black claims the area as his territory, so every stone played/everything white surrounds is a loss for black.

With that in mind, let's count it. (I can't be bothered to work out a proper sequence since I'm just trying to make a general point, so forgive me if this is incorrect)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]B Corner
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . O O X . . .
$$ | . O O O X X . . .
$$ | . . O X X . . X O
$$ | O O O X . . . X O
$$ | X O X . . . . X O
$$ | X X X . . . . X O
$$ | . . . X . . X O .
$$ | . . . . . . X O .
$$ | . . . . . . X O .[/go]


White makes 6 points of territory.
White plays 10 stones.
Black plays 10 stones.

So black loses 26 points and white gains 6, making the total value of the invasion 32 points, which is huge by any standard, but is especially impressive if you compare it to other invasions worth only a few points.


Game specific comment:

So back to the actual game. I'm sure you've realised (if you actually read this far), that I think this is a situation where I profit more from an invasion than black does. I messed up and didn't do as well as I could have, and it might have been better to wait until I was stronger on the outside, but this is why I said I was happy just living.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm35 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . B . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . B . . a . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B B . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Looking at the situation above it seems to me that the marked stones effectively seal off the corner from the rest of the board, but they don't really claim it as territory. I see three situations resulting from this:

1)Neither player plays in that corner until later. Black is thick and has good influence.
2) Black plays first around "a". Black makes a huge profit in the corner and is thick with good influence.
3) White plays first around "a". Both players make a small amount of profit in the corner and black is thick with good influence.

Whatever happens, black has good influence on the outside, so the difference is whether black makes a huge profit or both players make a small profit. An invasion is almost pure profit for white, so I couldn't afford to let situation 1) continue any more than absolutely necessary. I'm not sure that I got that absolutely right, given my weakness on the bottom right, but it's hard to see how I would have come back from letting konfuzed take so much territory.

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 Post subject: Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Post #75 Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:24 pm 
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Current Boardstate:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm43 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


No pressure, I prefer considering things carefully anyway.

Locally I think I can be rather satisfied with him living small in gote and being sealed in, unless those two compromised stones end up being very useful to him somehow. I still think his whole-board position has plenty of potential though.

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 Post subject: Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Post #76 Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:23 pm 
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Thanks konfuzed. I feel bad taking so long on each move, but it kinda defeats the point if I don't take the time to think things through properly.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm43 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think I might tenuki... :o (Edit: I guess that's not so surprising when you've already seen that I've tenukid)

I didn't find any kikashi, but I did find what looks like quite a nice reduction sequence.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . 4 O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 3 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X 5 . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It's not worth as many points as the corner, but it strengthens my side stones, which could be useful if he invades. It means that by invading I've reduced the value of a single black move in the corner, from taking the whole corner, to taking just part of it, which was the whole point of my invasion. The corner still seems to be worth a lot of points, but I think following up on my move at C7 may now be bigger.

I read this out in away from the board so it's likely wrong, but I think a move at D6 not only kills C6 and builds a wall, but also defends against a 3-3 invasion. If so, I take influence and territory with one move, which is pretty huge. Time to read it out:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . 6 5 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . 2 3 . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 0 8 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


continued...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | 5 X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . X O . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | 3 . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Dead, but maybe...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . 5 6 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 8 O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . 2 3 . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 0 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Dead, but I think :b6: was a mistake...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 All the horrible shapes make my eyes burn, but this is also dead.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | 5 . X O . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . 3 . 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I also read out some other sequences but it seems overkill to post them all. I now feel pretty confident that a 3-3 invasion is unreasonable here. Does that make D6 worth more than Q18 though? I think purely in terms of territory, it's worth slightly less (i.e. black makes more with Q18 than I make with D6), but D6 has wider implications. Add to that that Q18 is gote for black and it makes the reduction sequence more strongly forced (because it now threatens life if black doesn't reply), and I feel happy letting konfuzed kill the top right. Honestly though, if I were playing black I would seriously question if I could afford to ignore the rest of the board right now.


Edit: Forgot to include my move again... :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Post #77 Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:58 pm 
Lives with ko
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Posts: 125
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Was liked: 8
All I have for now is my first instincts from looking at the board.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm43 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . b O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X c . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

a feels flawed but this kind of idea feels appealing because I'd like to make this moyo deeper and give my left group more options.

b secures a respectable amount of points but is utterly isolated and double gote

c is somewhat large, possibly sente or even double sente (?), and feels necessary if I want to put any legitimate pressure on his group. However it is not as big in this case since I already have a base without it and I think this is typically considered large endgame rather than middle game material. Also, maybe compelling him to strengthen his group and secure points would lose me just as much as I gain here.


EDIT:
This is the move I am currently thinking of. I think getting a better presence in this area is important, and if I play here I should do so with a simple and relatively secure move.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm43 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . a . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Post #78 Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:24 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 125
Liked others: 31
Was liked: 8
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm43 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think stabilizing my most vulnerable group is worth a lot, and getting a stronger presence in what I view as his primary expansion potential is also valuable.


SGF of the game so far

Attachment:
Splatted v konfuzed.sgf [407 Bytes]
Downloaded 388 times

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 Post subject: Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Post #79 Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:26 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 734
Liked others: 683
Was liked: 138
Rank: Washed up never was
Universal go server handle: Splatted
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm43 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The board is staring to look more settled now, which is a problem because it's settling in black's favour. I think it's about time I jumped in somewhere and started a fight, but I'm wondering if it's better to take the definite points at Q18 first. I don't think there is any single move that is worth as much for either player now, but there are lots of border moves and invasions that still have the potential to shape the game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm43 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . O O . . . . . C . C . C . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . C . C . X . X X O O |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . C . . C . . C . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . C . C . C . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . b . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . a . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


"a" is a big move for both sides in terms of territory and influence on the bottom.

The top left group is no longer as weak as it was, but I think there may still be some potential there. Either for building up strength to counter blacks potential in the marked area, or to attack after building up strength reducing the marked area.

"b" is also tempting as a move that strengthens my weakest group and defines a border.

I think the important question here is: can black be allowed to turn the marked area in to territory? My initial reaction was no, but on further consideration. I think the answer is yes. I judge it to be worth somewhat more than my bottom left, but the difference isn't overwhelming. And since I don't have much potential for territory up there, it seems easier to compare if I can reduce as much on the outside as I can on by living with Q18. It seems to me that I can't do anything on the outside that affects the top as much as Q18, so I can immediately rule out those moves

The same seems true for "a", "b" and attacking the left. They're important. But none of them seem to be worth as much as Q18. "a" and "b" don't seem to have any follow ups large enough to justify letting black get Q18, and I'm not sure I can really profit that much from attacking the left right now. I feel I should see how the rest of the board goes and wait for an opportunity to make use of it's weakness.

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 Post subject: Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed
Post #80 Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:33 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 125
Liked others: 31
Was liked: 8
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm43 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . 5 O O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


His willingness to live here in gote means this move is sente for me at the moment. I do not know what the technically correct timing for this move is, but I feel like I'd rather just seal him now.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: :b2:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . X X O O |
$$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . 3 O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . |
$$ | . . . O . . 5 7 . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 O . X . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm thinking about just giving him the territory on bottom, taking a bit more center presence in exchange. Something like this, maybe probing with 5 first. If I probe at 5 I bet he will play my 7 in this diagram though, don't think it would work well but this is what I was thinking. I could also avoid strengthening him by playing a more light expansion instead of these attachments. I'm also thinking about attacking his bottom right group instead. I would also like to expand a bit on top. Too many choices to look at later.

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