#182 Nathan vs. lesenv

EdLee · **#21**

EdLee · **#22**

Nathan · **#23**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm6 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . 4 2 X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee · **#24**

Nathan,

lesenv · **#25**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm10 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Nathan · **#26**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm10 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X O O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Ok so Ed is keeping on me about this whole malkovich thing.

I'll do my best.

So for my statement saying p15 was not ideal for b. I feel it gives white a more solid shape than before, and also leaves two weaknesses in bs shape with the cut at q15 and the hane at s16. It goes against the ole proverb of do not attack weak stones by attaching. However in defense of the move it does try to keep r14 seperated which is a good idea. Below is an embarrassing attempts at reading

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm10 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a X O O 1 . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X b . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

A seems like a conservative choice that would be a good result for w, while B would go for a kill and has some risk involved. either way i dont like bs position very well

So the other move that come to mind would be the hane at s17 which focuses on attacking whites weakness and not letting white get the corner.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm10 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 7 8 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X O O 1 . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Seems playable for black.

Attempting to explain things really makes me feel weak, and realize how very little i know.

Oh yea so now the move I am doing now, My first instinct was to play s16 it seemed to be the best way to attack black, and take the corner to settle, and all that good stuff. But then looking ahead b o17 looked really annoying. Therefore I am playing solidly and connecting my groups where I have two good follow ups at either s16 or o15.

lesenv · **#27**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm12 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee · **#28**

For beginners.

lesenv wrote:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm12 $$------------------- $$. . . . . . . . . | $$. . . 2 1 . c . . | $$. . . O X O O b . | $$. . . O O X X . . | $$. . . . X . . . . | $$. . . . . X O . . | $$. . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . X . . | $$. . . . . . . . . |[/go]

With the above :w13:

, B gets two local sente moves at (b) and (c), like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$------------------- $$. . . . 4 . . . . | $$. . . O X 2 3 . . | $$. . . O X O O 1 . | $$. . . O O X X . . | $$. . . . X . . . . | $$. . . . . X O . . | $$. . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . X . . | $$. . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Instead of :w13:

, it's better for W to block the other side with :w1:

, the empty triangle.
The reason: both :w13:

and

kill the two :bc:

stones...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$------------------- $$. . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . B 1 . . . | $$. . . O B O O . . | $$. . . O O X X . . | $$. . . . X . . . . | $$. . . . . X O . . | $$. . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . X . . | $$. . . . . . . . . |[/go]

...but if B hanes with :b2:

, then W can now block with :w3:

:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$------------------- $$. . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . B 1 . 3 . | $$. . . O B O O 2 . | $$. . . O O X X . . | $$. . . . X . . . . | $$. . . . . X O . . | $$. . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . X . . | $$. . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Contrast this with the original :w13:

: W could not resist the same way, because :b16:

captures the two :wc:

stones:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm12 $$------------------- $$. . . . . . . . . | $$. . . 2 1 . 5 4 . | $$. . . O X W W 3 . | $$. . . O O X X . . | $$. . . . X . . . . | $$. . . . . X O . . | $$. . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . X . . | $$. . . . . . . . . |[/go]

In addition, whether W blocks with (x = :w13:

) or (y =

) affects the W(z) connection to :wt:

:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$------------------- $$. . . . . . . . . | $$. . . x 1 y . . . | $$. . . O X O O . . | $$. . . O O X X z . | $$. . . . X . . . . | $$. . . . . X Q . . | $$. . . . . . . . . | $$. . . . . . X . . | $$. . . . . . . . . |[/go]

skydyr · **#29**

EdLee · **#30**

skydyr,

lesenv · **#31**

i want to have a secret message to me! :batman:

but while i don't receive a reply, i think i'm on the right path.

jts · **#32**

Top secret message for lesenv:

Magicwand · **#33**

Uberdude wrote:

actually... hane is overplay but...cut ....can be played.. it is complicated fight but white has advantage IMO.

this is what i expect..

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm10 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 X O O 4 . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 5 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

below is an overplay for black.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm10 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 X O O 4 . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Magicwand · **#34**

below should be correct sequence for black.
white is better...but considering 4 stone white should not play such moves.
white should try to leave weakness on black.
although black lost points...black is still ahead and made game simpler than before.
not really bad thing for black having 4 stone.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm10 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O 1 . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . 6 O O X X 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

or this

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm10 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O 1 . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee · **#35**

lesenv,

lesenv · **#36**

ed:
when i played :b6:

, i thought he takes the corner, i take the wall and eventually i protect at a

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm6 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 1 O O 4 . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X X 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

jts:
honestly i hope i don't play crap. we have two groups each and this favours the better player (my humble opponent). i'm not just slapping stones on the board, but i'm trying to read more than usually (i'm lucky to discover that white stones aren't connected).
it's too early to think about winning or losing, but i'm still confident i can win it.
i looked at the new created wall at :w13:

and this will be played. i looked at b, but this looked too near to the white wall.
when somebody invades (at c or d, for example), i don't see how this could progress. when in fighting there are some moves more likely to be played than others (like forcing moves), when this is not yet in fighting, there are too many possibilities.
i think on the right side would be too near to my other stones, on the bottom side would be great. white stones would be great for white to approach the left-top corner, so i'm kind of playing the stone my opponent wants to play.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm12 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . c d . a b . . . O X O O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee · **#37**

lesenv,

Nathan · **#38**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm12 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

lesenv · **#39**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm12 Prisoners: none $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . O X O O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

tomukaze · **#40**

@Ed Lee

#182 Nathan vs. lesenv

Who is online