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Offline lesenv
 Post subject: #182 Nathan vs. lesenv
Post #1 Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:26 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 107
Liked others: 32
Was liked: 3
DGS: 9k
alright, i'm 9k on dgs, i choose 4 stones handicap.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


let's have a good game!

This post by lesenv was liked by: Nathan
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Offline Nathan
 Post subject: Re: #182 Nathan vs. lesenv
Post #2 Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:48 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 127
Location: MD, USA
Liked others: 27
Was liked: 5
Rank: 3k KGS
KGS: Nathan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Have a great game!

I am not too experienced with handicap games should be fun.

This post by Nathan was liked by: lesenv
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Offline lesenv
 Post subject: Re: #182 Nathan vs. lesenv
Post #3 Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:22 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 107
Liked others: 32
Was liked: 3
DGS: 9k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm2 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


normally i play the other side (O17), now i want to pressure him since i have 4 more stones.
i don't know the joseki, i will play intuitively and concentrate on the basics: cut him, keep connected myself.
i expect a fight. else if he drops to 3-3 i will be happy and take some influence with my handicapstones.
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Offline Nathan
 Post subject: Re: #182 Nathan vs. lesenv
Post #4 Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:04 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 127
Location: MD, USA
Liked others: 27
Was liked: 5
Rank: 3k KGS
KGS: Nathan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm2 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I am going to 3-3 and keep it simple. Take my territory now, and hopefully he wont be able to utilize his influence efficiently.

I expect the joseki below

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm2 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . 2 O 6 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . 3 X 1 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject: Re: #182 Nathan vs. lesenv
Post #5 Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:08 pm 
Honinbo
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Nathan,
Nathan wrote:
I expect the joseki below
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . 4 2 7 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X 3 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
I doubt it. :)
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Offline The Intrepid
 Post subject: Re: #182 Nathan vs. lesenv
Post #6 Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:30 pm 
Lives in gote

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EdLee,
Your diagram is messed up. :)

_________________
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #7 Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:44 pm 
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Intrepid,
The Intrepid wrote:
Your diagram is messed up. :)
That was his diagram; I just quoted it. He ninja'd it. :)
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Offline lesenv
 Post subject: Re: #182 Nathan vs. lesenv
Post #8 Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:45 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 107
Liked others: 32
Was liked: 3
DGS: 9k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm4 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


alright, i will get my wall. that's great, i am happy.


oh, the first guests. i am already eager to read the comments.
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Offline Nathan
 Post subject: Re: #182 Nathan vs. lesenv
Post #9 Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:25 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 127
Location: MD, USA
Liked others: 27
Was liked: 5
Rank: 3k KGS
KGS: Nathan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm4 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline lesenv
 Post subject: Re: #182 Nathan vs. lesenv
Post #10 Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:46 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 107
Liked others: 32
Was liked: 3
DGS: 9k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm6 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline jts
 Post subject: Re: #182 Nathan vs. lesenv
Post #11 Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:16 pm 
Oza
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Uh oh, get ready for sixty posts on the correct refutation.
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Offline Tryss
 Post subject: Re: #182 Nathan vs. lesenv
Post #12 Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:18 pm 
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KGS: Tryss
jts wrote:
Uh oh, get ready for sixty posts on the correct refutation.

Hehe :twisted:

If white know this is an overplay and how to punish it, black is in trouble :salute:
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #13 Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:31 pm 
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For beginners,
Reference joseki (B extends at :b1:, instead of lesenv's :b6: hane in the real game):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Reference Joseki
$$--------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . 6 . O O 4 . |
$$ . . . . 1 X X 2 . |
$$ . . . . . . 5 3 . |
$$ . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Some variations following lesenv's :b6: hane in the real game:

Inferior for W than Reference Joseki ( :w1: is submissive):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$--------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ . . . . X O O . . |
$$ . . . . . X X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Peaceful result:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$--------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X O O 1 . |
$$ . . . . 2 X X 3 . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Inferior for B than Reference Joseki (W counters the unreasonable :b2: with :w3:):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$--------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X O O 1 . |
$$ . . . . 3 X X 2 . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Inferior for B than Reference Joseki:
(B did this to himself with lesenv's :b6: hane in the real game AND connecting at :b6: here)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$--------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ . . . 5 X O O 3 . |
$$ . . . . 6 X X 1 . |
$$ . . . . . . 4 2 . |
$$ . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Messy fight: (Both sides have to be careful, with many traps and pitfalls)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$--------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . 8 6 . . . . |
$$ . . . 5 X O O 3 . |
$$ . . . . 7 X X 1 . |
$$ . . . . . . 4 2 . |
$$ . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Tryss,
Tryss wrote:
If white know this is an overplay and how to punish it, black is in trouble :salute:
Not exactly. One can regard :b6: as a variation, with various results. ( :b6: happens in some pro games.)

This post by EdLee was liked by 2 people: Bonobo, Phoenix
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Offline Tryss
 Post subject: Re:
Post #14 Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:20 pm 
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KGS: Tryss
EdLee wrote:
Tryss,
Tryss wrote:
If white know this is an overplay and how to punish it, black is in trouble :salute:
Not exactly. One can regard :b6: as a variation, with various results. ( :b6: happens in some pro games.)


I doubt a pro would play :b6: with an empty board like here ;-)

And when I say "black is in trouble", it's because it's very easy for black to play like this (thinking "the cut will not work"):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$--------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X O O 1 . |
$$ . . . . 3 X X 2 . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


And here (with correct sequences), either white capture the 3 black stones, or white is outside to the left far better than in the joseki.
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #15 Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:24 pm 
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Tryss,
Of course, if B chooses to hurt himself. :)
Tryss wrote:
I doubt a pro would play :b6: with an empty board like here ;-)
Pros can be full of surprises: Nov 30, 1989. Cho Chikun 9p vs. Otake Hideo 9p:
( EXACTLY the same number of stones and just as empty as in the current game )
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm10
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
For beginners,
Tryss, I don't know about your experience with lesenv's :b6: hane, so I cannot speak for you (or others),
but here's my own experience:
About 10 years ago when I was just starting, a 1d friend told me that lesenv's :b6: hane is an overplay,
and showed me some variations.
Later -- a few years ago -- on this forum (with a previous domain name),
I even got into a very heated (read "VERY ugly") argument with another member here
about the same :b6: hane, and how to discuss it with beginners.
At that time, my understanding was not unlike yours: that :b6: hane is an overplay,
and that W can "punish" it, etc.
Since that time, I have a newer understanding, from discussions with a pro:
it's better to treat the :b6: hane as a variation, with various results,
which is my current presentation to beginners, here in Post #13.
Tryss wrote:
...or white is outside to the left far better than in the joseki.
Not exactly. This is another thing I learned the hard way.
Yes, this is true at pro level. But for kyu levels, especially for Nathan's and lesenv's levels,
the difference is not so big. I myself have lost many games, in W's shoes, after capturing the lone :b6: hane stone --
at these levels, the game is not decided here: not even close.
And it can be detrimental to think of :b6: as an "overplay that can be punished."
-- That's my experience. Maybe Tryss and others have different experiences. :)
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Offline Nathan
 Post subject: Re: #182 Nathan vs. lesenv
Post #16 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:50 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 127
Location: MD, USA
Liked others: 27
Was liked: 5
Rank: 3k KGS
KGS: Nathan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm6 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . 2 X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The hane is an overplay because I have r14 for support, I should be able to come away with a good result in this corner.

I will attempt some more reading once I see how black responds.
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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: #182 Nathan vs. lesenv
Post #17 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:33 am 
Judan

Posts: 6725
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Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Hoho, this should be fun. Black's hane was an overplay but so is this cut immediately: black s17 puts white in trouble.
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #18 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:49 pm 
Honinbo
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Location: Santa Barbara, CA
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For beginners,
Uberdude's :b1: hane is a natural candidate to consider (must confirm with reading)...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$---------------------
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . X O O 1 . |
$$, . . . . O X X . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . O . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . X . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
...because locally the shape is not good for W:
(proverb: "hane at the head of two stones" -- this happens twice, :bt:, for the two :wc: stones)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$---------------------
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . Y W W Y . |
$$, . . . . O # # . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . O . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . X . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
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Offline lesenv
 Post subject: Re: #182 Nathan vs. lesenv
Post #19 Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:21 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 107
Liked others: 32
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DGS: 9k
hm, i didn't see this move before.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm6 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . 6 1 O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . 4 2 X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

here i have the wall, his corner would be bigger
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm6 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 9 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O O 5 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . 2 X X 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

here you get the outside, i'm small, that's no good. plus he has sente

so, i'll take the outside, white can play r15 to connect, i have to think about the next move.
first i have to make sure to get the wall. i'm curious whether this works.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm6 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . 2 X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #20 Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:45 am 
Honinbo
User avatar

Posts: 8859
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 349
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GD Posts: 312
For beginners. Only move for W:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$---------------------
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . X O O . . |
$$, . . . 9 O X X . . |
$$. . . . . 8 . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . O . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . X . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
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Board index » L19²GO (Malkovich) » 1-on-1 Malkovich games

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