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#185 EdLee vs. The Intrepid: The Swords http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=7220 |
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Author: | The Intrepid [ Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:39 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
EdLee wrote: Wow, chess tourney! Exciting. How did you do? Too bad you cannot post your chess games here... or, can you? I played quite well. I would have likely taken first had I not missed a simple tactic in a won position in game 3, losing on the spot. As for posting my chess games, only once SGF files become SGCF files ... or once I start reliably beating 2300 players (I am around 2200 currently, which is like 4/5 dan , so I still have some ways to go).
Can this forum support chess SGF files??? |
Author: | The Intrepid [ Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:39 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #185 EdLee vs. The Intrepid: The Swords |
Let's see how this move works out. It's very complicated everywhere. I'm probably going to review the game briefly in the near future. I improved about 3 to 4 stones since I started playing this game last year, so I'll probably discover many mistakes on my part. |
Author: | EdLee [ Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:00 am ] |
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Author: | EdLee [ Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:02 am ] |
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Not sure; thought B would extend first:
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Author: | The Intrepid [ Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:23 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #185 EdLee vs. The Intrepid: The Swords |
Wow, EdLee takes the stone! What about his 4-4 and 4-5 stones? I better make sure I'm not missing something trivial.
I should probably say what the purpose of my last move was. First of all, it threatens the two white sones (which EdLee chose not to defend, for some reason). However, the real meaning of the move is to enable me to pull out the ataried stone at G7. I believe my position would have collapsed had I pulled out the stone right away (I mentioned this briefly previously):
The move in the game seeks to improve upon this. An illustrative variation:
Now let's see if I can figure out what EdLee's plan is for saving his 4-4, 4-5 stones. Does he plan to simply sacrifice them? |
Author: | The Intrepid [ Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:16 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #185 EdLee vs. The Intrepid: The Swords |
Either EdLee sees a sure way to make the two isolated stones live (which I do not) or, else, he wants to separate two of my stones, to kill them, somehow, and to make some territory in the middle:
I also considered this sequence:
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Author: | EdLee [ Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:16 pm ] |
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For this kosumi, one candidate was . Will think about it:
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Author: | EdLee [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:43 am ] |
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Author: | The Intrepid [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:08 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #185 EdLee vs. The Intrepid: The Swords |
With these two stones captured (assuming that they are indeed captured), I should be ahead now. However, I have to be very precise in how I defend White's threats. As a general rule, defending is much more difficult than attacking is. If one makes a mistake in attack, the assault ends. If one makes a mistake in defense, the game ends. As such, I'll take some time here to read variations very carefully. Moves "a," "b," and "c" are the obvious choices to consider--and I'll ponder them first.
However, it might be possible that I can tenuki here and still have the two stones captured.
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Author: | The Intrepid [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:28 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #185 EdLee vs. The Intrepid: The Swords |
It looks like I have to play as follows:
Next, White has a choice of two moves which are critical to the evaluation of the position and both of which are met by the same response from Black:
Anyway, I got to read some more. |
Author: | cdybeijing [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:00 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #185 EdLee vs. The Intrepid: The Swords |
I really don't agree with The Intrepid's comment about defense being, in general, more difficult than attack. The problem with his idea is that the stakes are not typically as absolute as he makes them sound. Often a failed attack leads to making little or no profit (or worse weakening one's own position) and strengthening the opponent unnecessarily. Captured or surrounded stones, presuming they are not overwhelmingly large, often still have lots of use and can be sacrificed in a benefical way. The general rule should be: it is much easier to make a group live than to kill a group. |
Author: | The Intrepid [ Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #185 EdLee vs. The Intrepid: The Swords |
I'm sorry for taking a long time on my move (again). I am trying to read out some variations in this position, and failing miserably at it. Hopefully cdybeijing's post provides a detailed and definitive answer as to how to play here. In fact, hopefully more players who calculate quickly and accurately, such as drmwc (hint, hint ), weigh in on the subject. Plus, I'm trying to commit to memory the finer points of Caro-Kann (a chess opening) in preparation for a tournament next week. So, what I'm trying to say is that, although I hope to make a move by the end of the week, I offer no guarantees toward this end. In my last post, I showed this position:
Continuing the analysis, White can extricate his stones by descending, which threatens to kill Black's corner with "a" and connect out with "b":
However, perhaps the consequences of this are not at all bad:
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Author: | drmwc [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:43 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #185 EdLee vs. The Intrepid: The Swords |
As requested... Interesting position! Suppose B goes all out to capture the W bits.
Something like 2 above looks plausible. Black is very thin, though, and white may have very some very strong replies. White may sacrifice in reply. For example, 3 to 7 cut off some central bits. However, B gets sente to play at 8, which is very big. Next:
W has good yose like the sequence above. I think this means white's ahead. Also, going back to the start, thi may be fun for white:
This makes the marked stone weak whilst aiming at saving the white bits. There are many, many branches in the resulting fight but it looks plausible for white. Hence I believe going for the kill is an overplay. SO I may play this:
Black 2 is thick. White 3 then threatens the corner. Black 4 is the easiest response to read out, but hectic variations are possible here - I don't know if they should work or not. 4 should be sente - it threatens a next. So white may well protect somewehere (although it's conceivable for white to play at 6 above now - it s huge move so this may be an improvement for white). Then black can attack the marked stone. Unlike the Intrepid's variation, I think white should play on a big as scale as possible. The atari at 6 seems to be the move. If I were playing, I would try counting the game under the assumption white sacrifices the marked stone in this line. If white needs to save the stone, black clearly has good winnning chances. I don't enjoy counting, though, so I'll leave the count as an exercise for the interested reader.... |
Author: | The Intrepid [ Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:04 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #185 EdLee vs. The Intrepid: The Swords |
Ha! I did succeed in strong-arming you to post. Incidentally, I came back from the chess tournament a few days ago. I went undefeated and made $7,000. Not bad. I should make a move in this game over the weekend. Then I got another chess tournament 10 days from now. Summer's busy. |
Author: | The Intrepid [ Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:12 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #185 EdLee vs. The Intrepid: The Swords |
I spent some time trying to understand whether I can get away with the move in the game--which is greedier--or whether I have to cut off the two White stones more forcefully with
As for what White will play next, he has many options. Perhaps he should simply let the two White stones die in exchange for cutting off some of my stones:
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Author: | EdLee [ Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:51 am ] |
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Author: | The Intrepid [ Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:23 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #185 EdLee vs. The Intrepid: The Swords |
We're about to find out whether or not I missed a move or misjudged the resulting position. White can play any of the following moves, but I should be fine in all these cases.
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Author: | EdLee [ Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:10 pm ] |
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Candidates: (a), (b), or elsewhere.
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Author: | EdLee [ Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:43 pm ] |
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Author: | The Intrepid [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:02 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #185 EdLee vs. The Intrepid: The Swords |
This move is forced. The two White stones are now definitely captured. White will try to get compensation by building a moyo in the center. The compensation should prove insufficient. |
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