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 Post subject: Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus
Post #81 Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:26 am 
Lives in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm61 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X 3 . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Finally! I got a satisfying result.

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 Post subject: Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus
Post #82 Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:54 am 
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for Marcus:
As you expected this cut, did you look at responses before allowing it? What do you expect white to try?


for observers:
It seemed to me that Black gets into a lot of trouble trying to save both sides of the cut:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm63 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 6 5 . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . a X 3 . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X 4 b . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


if :b68: at a, :w69: at b.

:b66: at J14 only helps white, so the empty triangle seems mandatory.

In any case white has a lot of options and any misstep from black and he loses cutting stones.

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 Post subject: Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus
Post #83 Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:01 am 
Tengen
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@peppernut:

FYI: :b66: @ K12 is normal shape unless :w67: @ K13 kills (which it doesn't, directly at least, here)

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 Post subject: Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus
Post #84 Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:07 pm 
Gosei

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Writing up my notes for this move has reminded me of how much I'm enjoying this game. I just want to say thanks for this opportunity, lovelove, I feel I'm getting a lot out of it already.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm61 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


peppernut:
Yes, I have been doing a fair bit of reading. In fact, we have not yet deviated from the main line I read out back at move :b56:. That does make me a little bit nervous, because, while I can usually predict quite accurately how a game will go, my evaluation of how GOOD that line of play is for me has always been spotty at best.

Here, for instance, I am trying to use my stones in the upper left quadrant as support for the fight In this case, my G14 stone cannot be captured in a ladder (for now) so I can concentrate on keeping the other weak group at H13 alive to keep White separated. When I played K9, my plan (however good or bad it turns out to be) was to give White the choice of either continuing the fight towards the center, which would ruin any points lovelove could possibly make there (so long as I survived), or to seal me off in gote so I could go back to the other weak group in the original cut and strengthen it. This allows me to continue to attack the weak White group on the left. My stones at D17, D15, C12, C13 and K17, as well as the strength I have in the P14 group, all provide support for that fight.

As for what White will try, I could see White trying to make it even more complicated by making yet another cut:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm65 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . 6 . 5 . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O 4 . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X 2 3 . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X 1 X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I still have a weak group for White to attack, but the support stones I have at the top of the board make White's choices more limited. White could try to build some support first, but as complicated as it could get, I don't see what lovelove could do beyond the following, which doesn't seem to work (though I could be missing something in my reading; I usually am missing something):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm65 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . 5 . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . 1 2 6 . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O 3 . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X . 4 . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm feeling pretty confident in my reading. However, I'm also quite aware that lovelove holds more experience over me and I look forward to whatever solution he has to the problem I'm posing him on the board. This is a great learning opportunity, and I am grateful lovelove for playing it with me.

Anyways, I hope that covered what you were asking. I tend to meander with my thoughts. Please feel free to ask follow up questions.


Observers:
What a great fight! I can't wait to see what lovelove plays next!

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Post #85 Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:22 pm 
Honinbo
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For beginners. The exchanges :b56: :w57: :b58: :w59: are bad for B: B is left with a broken shape
and W is very strong on the outside:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O @ @ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X B @ , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O B @ B . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X @ @ . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |[/go]
As skydyr said, it's much better for B to simply play :b1: directly, without the above bad exchanges for B:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X 1 . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus
Post #86 Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:44 pm 
Lives in gote

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Rank: Tygem 5 Dan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm61 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 5 . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus
Post #87 Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:05 am 
Gosei

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm61 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hmmm ... does this give him the ability to capture my cutting stones? More reading needs to be done, but I should not let this stone simply be captured, so the move is obvious. I'll continue to study the position while I wait for my opponent's next move.

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 Post subject: Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus
Post #88 Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:38 am 
Lives in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm67 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , 5 4 . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X 3 2 O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . 1 X X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus
Post #89 Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:59 am 
Dies in gote

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@topazg
Quote:
FYI: @ K12 is normal shape unless @ K13 kills (which it doesn't, directly at least, here)


Wow, thanks. I feel like I just plugged a glaring hole. In my studies I've seen K13 listed as the critical point in the position after Black plays K12. What I missed then is the fact that if K13 doesn't work, K12 becomes correct. I think I must have been making atari and a tiger's mouth to get out as a default play (which I mentioned does not work here).

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 Post subject: Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus
Post #90 Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:13 am 
Gosei

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm71 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , O X . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X O X O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . O X X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X 4 2 O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O 3 O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I see, you want to take the corner, lovelove? Let's see what you have in mind ...

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 Post subject: Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus
Post #91 Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:25 am 
Lives in gote

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Rank: Tygem 5 Dan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm71 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 5 . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , O X . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X O X O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . O X X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X X X O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O O O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

:scratch:

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 Post subject: Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus
Post #92 Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:49 am 
Oza

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Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
@lovelove:
lovelove wrote:
:scratch:

Is this a 'what is he thinking?' or 'what do I do from here?'

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 Post subject: Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus
Post #93 Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:58 am 
Gosei

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm71 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O 6 . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , O X . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X O X O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . O X X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X X X O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O O O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Yes, I've just sacrificed my corner, more or less. I wonder if it'll turn out to be worth it? Need to watch my weak groups.

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 Post subject: Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus
Post #94 Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:10 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 604
Location: Séoul, Corée
Liked others: 88
Was liked: 365
Rank: Tygem 5 Dan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm71 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . 7 O X . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X O X O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . O X X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X X X O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O O O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


skydyr wrote:
@lovelove:
lovelove wrote:
:scratch:

Is this a 'what is he thinking?' or 'what do I do from here?'

:scratch: = I'm in trouble

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Amsterdam, soon.

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 Post subject: Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus
Post #95 Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:21 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
this should be first.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm71 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . C O X . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X O X O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . O X X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X X X O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O O O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus
Post #96 Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:58 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1387
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GD Posts: 209
KGS: Marcus316
This is tough. I need to think a bit. I'll make my move tomorrow. Sorry for the delay.

Is E18 good enough? What if he plays F18 afterwards? Can I keep my stones safe and kill the left? Need to read a bit more.

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 Post subject: Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus
Post #97 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:29 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1387
Liked others: 139
Was liked: 111
GD Posts: 209
KGS: Marcus316
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm71 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X O X O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . O X X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X X X O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O O O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This required a lot of reading to make sure lovelove couldn't turn this into a blowout win for White. He will likely live in the corner, as I have to keep an eye on all 3 of my separated groups (C13, F17 and H13). I think my reading is sound, but there are so many variations that I don't really have much of an idea what branches he'll play.

There are a number of places in my reading where I needed to pay attention to surrounding stones, like the one at O8. If he gets the chance to drive my H13 group towards that stone, he'll have a won game just from that. Because of this, I think he'll be able to live with his H14/G15 stones (or a group near that area using the aji of those stones). That being said, I'll have plenty of opportunity soon enough to concentrate on reading that particular fight out, depending on the choices he makes in this fight.

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 Post subject: Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus
Post #98 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:38 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 604
Location: Séoul, Corée
Liked others: 88
Was liked: 365
Rank: Tygem 5 Dan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm71 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X O X O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . O X X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X X X O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O O O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Amsterdam, soon.

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 Post subject: Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus
Post #99 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:04 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1387
Liked others: 139
Was liked: 111
GD Posts: 209
KGS: Marcus316
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm71 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X O X O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . O X X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X X X O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O O O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I can predict the plan my opponent will likely try, now. He's going to try and attack my C13 group to see if he can save the White stones at C10. At least, that's what it looks like. It's a complicated fight, though. My line of defense depends on his next few moves.

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 Post subject: Re: #187 lovelove vs Marcus
Post #100 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:08 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 604
Location: Séoul, Corée
Liked others: 88
Was liked: 365
Rank: Tygem 5 Dan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm81 Prisoners: :b1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . O X . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . , . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X O X O . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . O X X O . . . . . . X O X X . |
$$ | . . X X X O O X . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . X O O O X X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X X X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X O X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't know why he removed his aji by himself, but still a hard game for me.

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