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 Post subject: Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname
Post #41 Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:15 am 
Lives in gote

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otenki wrote:
I kindoff have the feeling I'm loosing. I think what i need to do is use thickness to attack, otherwise I won't win this game.
Surprising pessimism. I'd take White in this position.

_________________
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.

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 Post subject: Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname
Post #42 Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:24 am 
Lives with ko
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I totally agree with you. =]

And I must say I really like Otenki's fuseki style. He likes playing the starpoints rather then approaches or enclosures, this leads to games with either early fights or huge frameworks.

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 Post subject: Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname
Post #43 Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:05 am 
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Posts: 447
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Was liked: 68
Rank: kgs 5kyu
KGS: Unusedname
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X . . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


alright so after this is done i'm thinking these points are miai

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X . . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . a O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i don't know if attacking at a is too raw

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X . . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . a O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


maybe i should extend to 7 first make a double wing and then threaten to attack at a severely

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X . . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . d . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . e . O . c . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i'm not sure how i'd enter this position though

i'm looking at these points

a can help me build up a moyo if i go for the doublewing

b feels too deep but with the high stone i should be able to live (Although i suck at l&d

c as a reduction feels too close to the thickness plus it makes white's thin position more secure

d looks ambitious i could start an invasion there let it die and then turn on the middle stone trying to separate it resulting in a living group on the a side

e i hate it lives small (if it lives at all) and it makes white thick

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 Post subject: Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname
Post #44 Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:44 am 
Lives in gote
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X 4 . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think the left top shape can be killed OR it will give me some nice influence in sente OR I will get top have some of the top middle.

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 Post subject: Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname
Post #45 Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:08 am 
Oza

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Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
That ladder ataris the laddering stones against the 4-4 stone in the opposite corner, I think.

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 Post subject: Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname
Post #46 Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:23 pm 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 447
Liked others: 137
Was liked: 68
Rank: kgs 5kyu
KGS: Unusedname
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X 4 . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O 5 . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


confused.
leading to terrrified

what don't i see

but... the ladder doesn't work

hmm
i wanted him to play a ladder breaker not this...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O 6 . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . a X O X O X 4 . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O 5 . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i think a or b for life if he does ladder break and i want to respond to it

since a and b have good chance for life i think i can play 7
which now i can easily respond to his ladder breaker and stil be able to get life.
i'l read it when i get to it
i think

idk
i've lost the last 10 games i've played so confidence is shaken.
but right now ther's not reason to allow this ponuki

actually i did consider just taKing the two stones then trying to fight my way into the moyo

also.... if i take the two stones i get sente


edit: i should have just tenuki'd

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O C 4 . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O 6 . . . . . . 7 . 8 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


his influence would be meaningless and he would be under attack.

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 Post subject: Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname
Post #47 Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:13 am 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 415
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Liked others: 43
Was liked: 32
Rank: EGF 2k
Universal go server handle: tygempanda
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X 4 . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O 5 . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The ladder now ends on 6 if I read correctly, this way my "defensive" moves does multiple things.

- It creates aji on top.
- Stabilises my group a bit. (removes aji)
- creates a bit of teritory which could otherwise be obtained by black.

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 Post subject: Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname
Post #48 Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:29 pm 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 447
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Rank: kgs 5kyu
KGS: Unusedname
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS this is what i've been witing for

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X 4 . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O 5 . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i want to play somewhere around 7, i know its not a ladder breaker
but the follow up is

plus i think the top right group can live small since he skipped playing b16

i have to take a moment to reread this to make sure this is what i want i'm about to head out but i'll make the move when i get home.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X 4 . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O 5 2 . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . 9 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i have to consider whether i can trde off the whole upper left AND the territory in between my two groups

for this.

things i'm going to consider is how severely i can harrass the upper right

and if i can profit off attacking the two stones in front of my 4-4


if he doesn't play a second move and goes straight back to the ladder

i think i'd do

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X 4 . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O 5 . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


idk a was my original thought and that seems horrible
maybe 7 needs to be closer
or maybe just jump out then turn on the top or bottom.

but alas....
i do have to consider playing simple.

but for you guys. I wil do my best to see if i can't make this game fascinating.

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 Post subject: Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname
Post #49 Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:34 pm 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 447
Liked others: 137
Was liked: 68
Rank: kgs 5kyu
KGS: Unusedname
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X 4 . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O 5 7 . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


nothing works
i think when i looked at it before i assumed he would play a 3rd line approach

because i remember it being easier to surround

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . b X O X O X 4 . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O 5 0 . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . 7 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


this is the best i could come up with

if i play a he can kill the top group

if i play b i didn't gain enough from letting him capture the ladder

it's slightly depressing

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X 4 . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O 5 . . . . . . 9 . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . 8 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


idk i'm not sure how to handle the double approach though.

but if i can get a i might get a big territory

but thats the end of my potential

all my territory is in the top and white has the rest of the board, two frameworks, and two lonely stones to harass.

i think i played too slow in the opening.

i'm thinking i should have played 19 on the right side because that would have been more demanding then the current 19.

so now i'm extending out

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X 4 . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O 5 . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . 8 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


hmmm i can enter around a

i need to have a move around b to separate white into two groups

i might have enough pokey points to turn b into a strong group (strong enough)

if i could somehow magically make b strong and then c i could separate white into 3 groups

i think i'm going to need a lot of contact plays

and i'm going to need to play my best go.

which right now i don't have

this game is looking terribly poor for me.

locally

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O a . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . b X O X O X 4 . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O 5 . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i think a and b are miai

if white chases these three stones i think i'll be fine.
this 7 might be greedy but i think i need to play greedy

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O 8 . 9 . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . 0 X O X O X 4 . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O 5 . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X 4 . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O 5 . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . 8 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


down at the bottom

i think 9 is the only move i can play

sigh

i suppose the benefit of playing in the corner is that you can tenuki more easily...

idk lets see how this goes.


lol nvm no

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O 8 . a . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . b X O X O X 4 . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O 5 . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i wanted to play this 7 but after this 8 i don't think i can play both a and b at the same time

ok ok not yet time to play reckless

so do i turn or do i just... cut hm

eh i think this is safer.

ugh no i can't even do the turn

i think this is the only way...

no i'm gonna try the turn

i've looked at it for a bit and i don't think he can kill me....

this is about to go from bad to worse.

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Offline
 Post subject: Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname
Post #50 Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:55 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 415
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Liked others: 43
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Universal go server handle: tygempanda
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X 4 . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O 5 7 . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



My plan is something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X 4 . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O 5 7 . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So at this point you might have been asking yourself half the game why i'm not playing at B16.
The reason is because the left side is not that big. Maybe to you it looks big but it can be hugely reduced because it has a lot of problems.

So what is the use of it ? The use of the left side is for letting black invade and take profit from the invasion. => Natural profit.
If I would take profit unnaturaly then it would become gote which is the last thing I want with this fast developing framework.

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 Post subject: Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname
Post #51 Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:47 am 
Oza

Posts: 2493
Location: DC
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Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X 4 . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O 5 . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . 7 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Something like this seems to be a simple enough way to gain compensation for the ladder. For white to keep black from being able to play a helpful ladder breaker, he'll have to give more than usual, and he already played the less optimal high approach.

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 Post subject: Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname
Post #52 Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:49 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 539
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otenki wrote:
So at this point you might have been asking yourself half the game why i'm not playing at B16.
The reason is because the left side is not that big. Maybe to you it looks big but it can be hugely reduced because it has a lot of problems.

So what is the use of it ? The use of the left side is for letting black invade and take profit from the invasion. => Natural profit.
If I would take profit unnaturaly then it would become gote which is the last thing I want with this fast developing framework.
The left side looks pretty big to me. :) C4 point would be nice to get, for instance.

_________________
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.

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 Post subject: Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname
Post #53 Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:05 am 
Dies in gote

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Quote:
The left side looks pretty big to me. C4 point would be nice to get, for instance.


I know, it looks really big to me as well. White has thickness, an extension on the 4th line, and then the opposite corner at 5-4. It's too big, black must be planning on invading this.

Which is why I don't see why Black is taking his time with B16, or why white doesn't want to capture that stone. It looks HUGE to me. If Black gets in B16 either White blocks, and it makes the move sente, or he gets to jump right into White's framework.

If White gets it then Black's corner isn't yet alive, and white gets sente moves on the top side.

How big is this move, 20+ points?

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Offline
 Post subject: Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname
Post #54 Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:26 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 447
Liked others: 137
Was liked: 68
Rank: kgs 5kyu
KGS: Unusedname
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X 4 . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O 5 7 . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


he doesn't play very many low stones does he.

i want to play away but if i do my 4-4 gets surrounded and separated from my other stone.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X 4 . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O 5 7 . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . a . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


if i play a i think he'll shoulder hit me

i think he'll b next turn

it seems like he just wants me to jump into one of his moyos and die.

so i'm gonna just try to enclose this corner

i don't like that the 3-3 is still open

ehhhh i actually i think i should play the long jump and try to stay connected...

i just have to remind myself corner stones are strong.

and i have about 50 points on top

and i can stil enter either framework

but he can still harass me alot

i need to take the initiative

so yeah

try to stay connected

he'll probably invade

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X 4 . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O 5 7 . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . 2 . 1 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


and then...... i have to think of something

naw i'm just going to play close to my stone and try to settle fast.

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 Post subject: Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname
Post #55 Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:37 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2493
Location: DC
Liked others: 157
Was liked: 442
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Unusedname wrote:
he doesn't play very many low stones does he.

i want to play away but if i do my 4-4 gets surrounded and separated from my other stone.
...

if i play a i think he'll shoulder hit me

i think he'll b next turn

it seems like he just wants me to jump into one of his moyos and die.

so i'm gonna just try to enclose this corner

i don't like that the 3-3 is still open

ehhhh i actually i think i should play the long jump and try to stay connected...

i just have to remind myself corner stones are strong.

and i have about 50 points on top

and i can stil enter either framework

but he can still harass me alot

i need to take the initiative

so yeah

try to stay connected

he'll probably invade

...

and then...... i have to think of something

naw i'm just going to play close to my stone and try to settle fast.

This is so fearful. White's stones can get in trouble or die just like black's, so play with kiai! :rambo:

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Offline
 Post subject: Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname
Post #56 Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:07 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 415
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Liked others: 43
Was liked: 32
Rank: EGF 2k
Universal go server handle: tygempanda
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . 0 X O X O X O . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I have too many plans for this whole game ...
Only one can be executed.

Ok plan one: (please note I don't know where 2 will be so I left it out).
The plan is here to get the side while later being able to do 3 which attacks center and corner stones.
Maybe 3 is an overplay but I see so much aji there.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . 2 X O X O X O . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok plan 2: Attack the stone without friends: J4

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X O . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . 2 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The problem with this is that my corner 5-3 is very weak so I will probably loose this fight and screw up all potential of that corner and side.
So I need to first enclose or something before attacking. Howhever I need to find some sequence in sente...

Maybe just enclose and then attack:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X O . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . 4 . X , . 6 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm very bad at predicting what black will do so i did not mark his moves.

Blah that feels waaaay too passive.

I need something more forcing.

Maybe the other way round:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X O . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 , . . 2 . X , . 3 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


bad stuff

Back to my old ideas...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . 2 X O X O X O . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The only problem is where will black play in the meantime... we'll see I want to have this fight on the top.

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Offline
 Post subject: Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname
Post #57 Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:32 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 447
Liked others: 137
Was liked: 68
Rank: kgs 5kyu
KGS: Unusedname
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O 1 . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O X O . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i could die if i tenuki D:

also i'm not sure if that move would have also been sente for me... or just sente for him.

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Offline
 Post subject: Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname
Post #58 Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:47 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 415
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Liked others: 43
Was liked: 32
Rank: EGF 2k
Universal go server handle: tygempanda
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O 1 . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O X O . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Stabilising my corner so I can attack j4 and gain profit.

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Offline
 Post subject: Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname
Post #59 Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:24 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 447
Liked others: 137
Was liked: 68
Rank: kgs 5kyu
KGS: Unusedname
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O 1 . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O X O . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


idk

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O 1 . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O X O . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . c . . X , . . . . . X . e . |
$$ | . . . . O . b . . . a . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i want to play a b or c so that i have no more weak stones but that feels to slow

maybe d or e to say i'm going to come in while securing the corner

i want to invade but

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O 1 . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O X O . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . . . X , . . . . . X 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


looks like it does a good job of making splitting his groups look silly

so since i'm not sure how to invade
i suppose i'll just have to reduce.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O 1 . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O X O . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


if he defends up i'll try an invasion

if he defends down i'll try to build the center and finally attack this group.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O 1 . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O X O . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X . . . . . 7 4 3 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i wanted to do something like 3 idk

if he doesn't capture then i'll split his stones.
i guess something like this

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O 1 . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O X O . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X . . . . 6 4 . 3 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


but by capping i save this

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

or something

maybe i'm just helping him solidify 4th line territory and that's probably bad.
we'll see

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 Post subject: Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname
Post #60 Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:16 am 
Lives in gote
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[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This feels like a thank you move. I can fix my shape and 43 will be "passed enemy lines" so i can profit (hopefully :rambo: )

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