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#191: Otenki vs Unusedname http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=7376 |
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Author: | The Intrepid [ Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:15 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname |
otenki wrote: I kindoff have the feeling I'm loosing. I think what i need to do is use thickness to attack, otherwise I won't win this game. Surprising pessimism. I'd take White in this position. |
Author: | DeFlow [ Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:24 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname |
I totally agree with you. =] And I must say I really like Otenki's fuseki style. He likes playing the starpoints rather then approaches or enclosures, this leads to games with either early fights or huge frameworks. |
Author: | Unusedname [ Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:05 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname |
alright so after this is done i'm thinking these points are miai
i don't know if attacking at a is too raw
maybe i should extend to 7 first make a double wing and then threaten to attack at a severely
i'm not sure how i'd enter this position though i'm looking at these points a can help me build up a moyo if i go for the doublewing b feels too deep but with the high stone i should be able to live (Although i suck at l&d c as a reduction feels too close to the thickness plus it makes white's thin position more secure d looks ambitious i could start an invasion there let it die and then turn on the middle stone trying to separate it resulting in a living group on the a side e i hate it lives small (if it lives at all) and it makes white thick |
Author: | otenki [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:44 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname |
I think the left top shape can be killed OR it will give me some nice influence in sente OR I will get top have some of the top middle. |
Author: | skydyr [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:08 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname |
That ladder ataris the laddering stones against the 4-4 stone in the opposite corner, I think. |
Author: | Unusedname [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:23 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname |
confused. leading to terrrified what don't i see but... the ladder doesn't work hmm i wanted him to play a ladder breaker not this...
i think a or b for life if he does ladder break and i want to respond to it since a and b have good chance for life i think i can play 7 which now i can easily respond to his ladder breaker and stil be able to get life. i'l read it when i get to it i think idk i've lost the last 10 games i've played so confidence is shaken. but right now ther's not reason to allow this ponuki actually i did consider just taKing the two stones then trying to fight my way into the moyo also.... if i take the two stones i get sente edit: i should have just tenuki'd
his influence would be meaningless and he would be under attack. |
Author: | otenki [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:13 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname |
The ladder now ends on 6 if I read correctly, this way my "defensive" moves does multiple things. - It creates aji on top. - Stabilises my group a bit. (removes aji) - creates a bit of teritory which could otherwise be obtained by black. |
Author: | Unusedname [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:29 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname |
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS this is what i've been witing for
i want to play somewhere around 7, i know its not a ladder breaker but the follow up is plus i think the top right group can live small since he skipped playing b16 i have to take a moment to reread this to make sure this is what i want i'm about to head out but i'll make the move when i get home.
i have to consider whether i can trde off the whole upper left AND the territory in between my two groups for this. things i'm going to consider is how severely i can harrass the upper right and if i can profit off attacking the two stones in front of my 4-4 if he doesn't play a second move and goes straight back to the ladder i think i'd do
idk a was my original thought and that seems horrible maybe 7 needs to be closer or maybe just jump out then turn on the top or bottom. but alas.... i do have to consider playing simple. but for you guys. I wil do my best to see if i can't make this game fascinating. |
Author: | Unusedname [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:34 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname |
nothing works i think when i looked at it before i assumed he would play a 3rd line approach because i remember it being easier to surround
this is the best i could come up with if i play a he can kill the top group if i play b i didn't gain enough from letting him capture the ladder it's slightly depressing
idk i'm not sure how to handle the double approach though. but if i can get a i might get a big territory but thats the end of my potential all my territory is in the top and white has the rest of the board, two frameworks, and two lonely stones to harass. i think i played too slow in the opening. i'm thinking i should have played 19 on the right side because that would have been more demanding then the current 19. so now i'm extending out
hmmm i can enter around a i need to have a move around b to separate white into two groups i might have enough pokey points to turn b into a strong group (strong enough) if i could somehow magically make b strong and then c i could separate white into 3 groups i think i'm going to need a lot of contact plays and i'm going to need to play my best go. which right now i don't have this game is looking terribly poor for me. locally
i think a and b are miai if white chases these three stones i think i'll be fine. this 7 might be greedy but i think i need to play greedy
down at the bottom i think 9 is the only move i can play sigh i suppose the benefit of playing in the corner is that you can tenuki more easily... idk lets see how this goes. lol nvm no
i wanted to play this 7 but after this 8 i don't think i can play both a and b at the same time ok ok not yet time to play reckless so do i turn or do i just... cut hm eh i think this is safer. ugh no i can't even do the turn i think this is the only way... no i'm gonna try the turn i've looked at it for a bit and i don't think he can kill me.... this is about to go from bad to worse. |
Author: | otenki [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:55 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname |
My plan is something like this:
So at this point you might have been asking yourself half the game why i'm not playing at B16. The reason is because the left side is not that big. Maybe to you it looks big but it can be hugely reduced because it has a lot of problems. So what is the use of it ? The use of the left side is for letting black invade and take profit from the invasion. => Natural profit. If I would take profit unnaturaly then it would become gote which is the last thing I want with this fast developing framework. |
Author: | skydyr [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:47 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname |
Something like this seems to be a simple enough way to gain compensation for the ladder. For white to keep black from being able to play a helpful ladder breaker, he'll have to give more than usual, and he already played the less optimal high approach. |
Author: | The Intrepid [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:49 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname |
otenki wrote: So at this point you might have been asking yourself half the game why i'm not playing at B16. The left side looks pretty big to me. C4 point would be nice to get, for instance.The reason is because the left side is not that big. Maybe to you it looks big but it can be hugely reduced because it has a lot of problems. So what is the use of it ? The use of the left side is for letting black invade and take profit from the invasion. => Natural profit. If I would take profit unnaturaly then it would become gote which is the last thing I want with this fast developing framework. |
Author: | peppernut [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:05 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname |
Quote: The left side looks pretty big to me. C4 point would be nice to get, for instance. I know, it looks really big to me as well. White has thickness, an extension on the 4th line, and then the opposite corner at 5-4. It's too big, black must be planning on invading this. Which is why I don't see why Black is taking his time with B16, or why white doesn't want to capture that stone. It looks HUGE to me. If Black gets in B16 either White blocks, and it makes the move sente, or he gets to jump right into White's framework. If White gets it then Black's corner isn't yet alive, and white gets sente moves on the top side. How big is this move, 20+ points? |
Author: | Unusedname [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:26 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname |
he doesn't play very many low stones does he. i want to play away but if i do my 4-4 gets surrounded and separated from my other stone.
if i play a i think he'll shoulder hit me i think he'll b next turn it seems like he just wants me to jump into one of his moyos and die. so i'm gonna just try to enclose this corner i don't like that the 3-3 is still open ehhhh i actually i think i should play the long jump and try to stay connected... i just have to remind myself corner stones are strong. and i have about 50 points on top and i can stil enter either framework but he can still harass me alot i need to take the initiative so yeah try to stay connected he'll probably invade
and then...... i have to think of something naw i'm just going to play close to my stone and try to settle fast. |
Author: | skydyr [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:37 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname |
Unusedname wrote: he doesn't play very many low stones does he. i want to play away but if i do my 4-4 gets surrounded and separated from my other stone. ... if i play a i think he'll shoulder hit me i think he'll b next turn it seems like he just wants me to jump into one of his moyos and die. so i'm gonna just try to enclose this corner i don't like that the 3-3 is still open ehhhh i actually i think i should play the long jump and try to stay connected... i just have to remind myself corner stones are strong. and i have about 50 points on top and i can stil enter either framework but he can still harass me alot i need to take the initiative so yeah try to stay connected he'll probably invade ... and then...... i have to think of something naw i'm just going to play close to my stone and try to settle fast. This is so fearful. White's stones can get in trouble or die just like black's, so play with kiai! |
Author: | otenki [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:07 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname |
I have too many plans for this whole game ... Only one can be executed. Ok plan one: (please note I don't know where 2 will be so I left it out). The plan is here to get the side while later being able to do 3 which attacks center and corner stones. Maybe 3 is an overplay but I see so much aji there.
Ok plan 2: Attack the stone without friends: J4
The problem with this is that my corner 5-3 is very weak so I will probably loose this fight and screw up all potential of that corner and side. So I need to first enclose or something before attacking. Howhever I need to find some sequence in sente... Maybe just enclose and then attack:
I'm very bad at predicting what black will do so i did not mark his moves. Blah that feels waaaay too passive. I need something more forcing. Maybe the other way round:
bad stuff Back to my old ideas...
The only problem is where will black play in the meantime... we'll see I want to have this fight on the top. |
Author: | Unusedname [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:32 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname |
i could die if i tenuki D: also i'm not sure if that move would have also been sente for me... or just sente for him. |
Author: | otenki [ Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:47 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname |
Stabilising my corner so I can attack j4 and gain profit. |
Author: | Unusedname [ Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:24 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname |
idk
i want to play a b or c so that i have no more weak stones but that feels to slow maybe d or e to say i'm going to come in while securing the corner i want to invade but
looks like it does a good job of making splitting his groups look silly so since i'm not sure how to invade i suppose i'll just have to reduce.
if he defends up i'll try an invasion if he defends down i'll try to build the center and finally attack this group.
i wanted to do something like 3 idk if he doesn't capture then i'll split his stones. i guess something like this
but by capping i save this
or something maybe i'm just helping him solidify 4th line territory and that's probably bad. we'll see |
Author: | otenki [ Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:16 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname |
This feels like a thank you move. I can fix my shape and 43 will be "passed enemy lines" so i can profit (hopefully ) |
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