Life In 19x19 :: #193 TIM82 vs EdLee

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#193 TIM82 vs EdLee http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=7416	Page 11 of 11

Author:	EdLee [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:45 am ]
Post subject:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bm123 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . \| $$ \| . . X O O . O . . O . . . O X X . . . \| $$ \| . X . X . . . . . , . . O O . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . . O O X O . . . . . \| $$ \| . X . . X . . . O O X X . X X . X . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . X X . . . X . . O X . . \| $$ \| . . . . X . . . . . X O O X . O . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O . . O X O O X X X . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O , . . O . X , . X . . . X X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . X . . . . X . O . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . O X . . . . O . O X . . \| $$ \| . X O O . . . . O . . . . . . X X . . \| $$ \| X . X O X . . . O . X X O O . . X . . \| $$ \| . X X X O . . . . . 1 O . . O O X . . \| $$ \| . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . O O X . \| $$ \| . X X O O X . . . O . . O . O X X . . \| $$ \| . X O . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . \| $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Author:	TIM82 [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bm123 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . \| $$ \| . . X O O . O . . O . . . O X X . . . \| $$ \| . X . X . . . . . , . . O O . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . X . . . . . . O O X O . . . . . \| $$ \| . X . . X . . . O O X X . X X . X . . \| $$ \| . . O . . . . X X . . . X . . O X . . \| $$ \| . . . . X . . . . . X O O X . O . . . \| $$ \| . . . O O . . O X O O X X X . . . . . \| $$ \| . . O , . . O . X , . X . . . X X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . X . . . . X . O . . O . . . \| $$ \| . . . . O . . O X . . . . O . O X . . \| $$ \| . X O O . . . . O . 2 . . . . X X . . \| $$ \| X . X O X . . . O . X X O O . . X . . \| $$ \| . X X X O . . . . . 1 O . . O O X . . \| $$ \| . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . O O X . \| $$ \| . X X O O X . . . O . . O . O X X . . \| $$ \| . X O . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . \| $$ -----------------------------------------[/go] Either I just hit the jackpot or I have miscalculated brutally.

Author:	EdLee [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:44 am ]
Post subject:
Tim, thank you for the game -- have a nice summer!

Author:	TIM82 [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: #193 TIM82 vs EdLee
Thank you too - it was a fun game and I think I also learned some things from it - this was my first correspondence game ever, having time to think well was really nice. Re: improving: At least I have managed to make some even wins agains local 2 dans lately I'll make a post-mortem of some key points from my perspective later in the evening.

Author:	wineandgolover [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: #193 TIM82 vs EdLee
Wow, these games are so long! April 7 tesuji wins the day.

Author:	Magicwand [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: #193 TIM82 vs EdLee
i didnt really count but...it appears that black is still winning. no?

Author:	EdLee [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:10 am ]
Post subject:
wineandgolover wrote: Wow, these games are so long! April 7 tesuji wins the day. My previous game was 11 days short of 1 year. Which Apr 7 move ( ? Because of time zone differences, time stamps are local! ) ? MW: my counting is terrible, but even without w124 I thought I was behind. I'm sure my mistakes were much earlier.

Author:

TIM82 [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:10 am ]

Post subject:

Re: #193 TIM82 vs EdLee

Magicwand wrote:

i didnt really count but...it appears that black is still winning. no?

I suck at counting, but in my counting I was cruising to comfortable victory already before 123-124?

sgf with some comments below. To sum in one sentence why I think I got ahead: In multiple situations I was able to grap sente from local situation - I don't think I should have gotten it so often so easily (46, 66&70, 92(kindof, from side area), 102, 114-116)

Attachments:

Tuukka-EdLee.sgf [2.9 KiB]
Downloaded 523 times

Author: drmwc [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:38 am ]

Post subject: Re: #193 TIM82 vs EdLee

Doesn't B have resources in the final position?

First B cuts to see if W wants to kill the central two black stones. Assume W does:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . O X X . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . O O . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X O . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X . . . O O X X . X X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . X X . . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . X O O X . O . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . O X O O X X X . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . 6 O 5 X , . X . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . X 3 4 . . X . O . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . O X . . . . O . O X . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . O . 2 . . . . X X . . | $$ | X . X O X . . . O . X X O O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . . 1 O . . O O X . . | $$ | . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . O O X . | $$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . O X X . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Now B commences central operations. Again, W has a choice but W 8 below is (I think) forced if W wants the lot:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm7 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . O X X . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . O O . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X O . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X . . . O O X X . X X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . X X . . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . X O O X . O . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . O X O O X X X . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . O O X X , . X . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X O 5 . X . O . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . O . 8 O X 4 6 . . O . O X . . | $$ | . X O O . . . 7 O 1 O 2 . . . X X . . | $$ | X . X O X . . . O 3 X X O O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O . . . . . X O . . O O X . . | $$ | . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . O O X . | $$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . O X X . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Now B has a tesuji in centre:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm15 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . O X X . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . O O . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X O . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X . . . O O X X . X X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . X X . . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . X O O X . O . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . O X O O X X X . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . O O X X , . X . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X O X . X . O . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . O . O O X O O . . O . O X . . | $$ | . X O O . . . X O X O O . . . X X . . | $$ | X . X O X . 3 2 O X X X O O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O . . . 1 . X O . . O O X . . | $$ | . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . O O X . | $$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . O X X . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Now W has a choice. Suppose W captures:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm18 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . O X X . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . O O . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X O . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X . . . O O X X . X X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . X X . . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . X O O X . O . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . O X O O X X X . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . O O X X , . X . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X O X . X . O . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . O . O O X O O . . O . O X . . | $$ | . X O O 5 . 1 3 O X O O . . . X X . . | $$ | X . X O X 4 X O O X X X O O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O . . 2 X . X O . . O O X . . | $$ | . . O X O O 6 . . O X . . . . O O X . | $$ | . X X O O X 7 . . O . . O . O X X . . | $$ | . X O . . . 8 . . . . . . O X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

W may play 24 at 25. It's unclear to me what happens in this case, but B seems to get a plausible looking semeai. (I haven't included any diagrams for this line.)

Again W has a choice. Caturing the stone looks ropey, so W may well extend:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm26 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . O X X . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . O O . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X O . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X . . . O O X X . X X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . X X . . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . X O O X . O . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . O X O O X X X . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . O O X X , . X . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . a X X O X . X . O . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . O . O O X O O . . O . O X . . | $$ | . X O O O . O O O X O O b . . X X . . | $$ | X . X O X X X O O X X X O O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O . . X X . X O . . O O X . . | $$ | . . O X O O X . . O X . . . . O O X . | $$ | . X X O O X O 1 . O . . O . O X X . . | $$ | . X O . 3 2 X . . . . . . O X . X . . | $$ | . . . 5 4 . 6 . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

B gets a ko. I think B has some loacl threats (e.g. playing at a threatens the top left white group which can be cut off if W ignores the threat. The move at b is also a threat) So it's unclear B ha lost.

Going back, W may not caputre in anwer to B's tesuji:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm18 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . O X X . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . O O . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X O . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X . . . O O X X . X X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . X X . . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . X O O X . O . . . | $$ | . . . O O . . O X O O X X X . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . O O X X , . X . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . X X O X . X . O . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . O 2 O O X O O . . O . O X . . | $$ | . X O O . 4 3 5 O X O O . . . X X . . | $$ | X . X O X . X O O X X X O O . . X . . | $$ | . X X X O . 6 1 X . X O . . O O X . . | $$ | . . O X O O 8 7 . O X . . . . O O X . | $$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . O X X . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

B plays some ataris and pushes, and W seems to be in trouble.

There is an English Go proverb: Resigning never won a game of Go.

Author:	The Intrepid [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: #193 TIM82 vs EdLee
drmwc wrote: There is an English Go proverb: Resigning never won a game of Go. I wouldn't be surprised if this proverb is borrowed from a corresponding chess saying.

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