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 Post subject: #15
Post #21 Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:00 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 150
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Was liked: 10
Rank: KGS 1D
KGS: DragonPie
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Even with his newfound thickness on the bottom left, I think that his move is usually played when he's already got an extension of some sorts on the left hand side. I think it is good for me to go ahead and take away his chance to extend on that side. I played away from my recent stone, and maybe he'll attempt to attack it in some way. Depending on how he tries to attack it, I'll sacrifice it, settle it quickly or fight. I'll decide when the time comes, but it's a pretty flexible stone. His corner is still open at this time. I also played a bit further from the wall on the bottom left so as to respect his thickness.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragon Pie vs. emerus #209
Post #22 Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:17 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 577
Liked others: 22
Was liked: 36
Rank: Fox Tygem 6d
KGS: emerus
Tygem: emerus
OGS: emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Push him into my thickness. Next I'll either defend my corner or play on the right side.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragon Pie vs. emerus #209
Post #23 Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:18 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 150
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 10
Rank: KGS 1D
KGS: DragonPie
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He had no choice. He really had to push this way towards his thickness, though I was also imagining that he might cap. Right now, few moves come to mind. I hesitate to play something like the two space extension along the edge as I feel like he'd still stand to gain on the outside with a capping move and a descent at B5 hurts both the corner and the extension.

I could try jumping towards his wall with something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Later, I might get to play at a to stabilize my group a bit. Or I could jump out to b.

If I felt like later I could destabilize his group on the bottom left, I might play this way, but I don't see that happening.

I could just jump out now. With the thought that later getting a two space extension in would be big. If he played to remove it, a capping move feels nice to limit his potential there.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


After I jump, maybe he could still cap me.

After all, I'll still be behind sector lines:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . 1 . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ {LN F15 G4}[/go]


I prefer being the one to control the center in this game, so perhaps I could consider the two space jump. The problem with that is that black's cap doesn't feel very good after white extends from his bottom position. Of course, my stone will have already done it's job by then in preventing black from playing there, so I imagine that both of us would ignore those stones for a bit and it'll be a good question of timing as to when to help them. I'll try to play moves that will allow for them to exert useful influence in the center and my opponent will doubtless try to make the position such that it makes sense to attack them.


So that's it then. Let's give it a shot!

But first, he'll likely tenuki because it isn't profitable to attack those stones just yet, so let's examine what he can do against my approach stone:

One thought for many people would be to kick it to make it heavy and that is a possibility here, but my natural response means that he either has to respond at :w3: or a. :w3: closes the corner, though there is certainly still some aji there, but black is all to happy to get an extension in and white, while possibly getting the corner will lose his chance to attack black.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 3 2 . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . a O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If he pincers, whatever the pincer, I might just take the corner or I might play elsewhere even a counter pincer with the knowledge that my stone still has some aji that will be a nuisance to him or he'll have to play some slow moves to kill it.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragon Pie vs. emerus #209
Post #24 Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:20 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 577
Liked others: 22
Was liked: 36
Rank: Fox Tygem 6d
KGS: emerus
Tygem: emerus
OGS: emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 9 . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'll add more about what I expect(ed) to happen in a while but this is my move.

"Your opponents good point is your good point."

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 1 , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . T . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:b1: serves to expand his moyo while also giving his left-side group a place to run towards. Next :et: could be big for black.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragon Pie vs. emerus #209
Post #25 Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:53 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 150
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 10
Rank: KGS 1D
KGS: DragonPie
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I like his move. A pincer any tighter and I would probably just tenuki or even extend on that side and make him deal with the aji. Any looser and I really have nothing to worry about. It's possible that I could still do a two space jump towards his stone and let him take that stone and the corner with a couple move moves. I could try tenuki to the upper right and approach which is surely big. Anyhow, let's do some analysis of this position. Let's go back. and assume that the F15 F17 exchange wasn't made. And maybe instead, he played his current move and I chose to invade, he wouldn't play :w6:, so it looks misplaced to my eyes.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 4 . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But like I said, I felt like his last move was a good one. His corner is still open though and that tenuki to the bottom right corner looks appetizing. Earlier, a double approach on that corner didn't look quite as big as usual because the bottom isn't particularly large, but it's looking bigger now. If I could invade the corner in the top left sente, I'd probably just do that. Make no mistake that the two space extension on the top is big too. Imagine if white gets that move.

Compare:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . W . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Versus:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . B . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


That two space extension gives a lot more aji to my previous approach move.

But, compare this difference as well.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


versus:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is also a very big difference.

So, if I approach the bottom right and he takes the other big point:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . 2 . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Versus:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . 1 . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Of course, if he responds to either, I'm happy with the sente exchange and to get the other big point as well.

I decided to go with my move because it feels bigger to me. I've learned not to underestimate a move like the one I showed though. Even after that move, my previous approach move is still a nuisance to him. If I do better at timing than him, I'll save it at the most opportune time and leave him annoyed. Of course, a lot of strength is timing and judgement.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragon Pie vs. emerus #209
Post #26 Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:06 pm 
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KGS: emerus
Tygem: emerus
OGS: emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . 2 . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Can't let black get this point, it would strengthen his lone top stone while expanding his moyo. Next, he could re-approach my corner or slide at d18 to take most of my territory away.

White's main strength right now is thickness and potential to push black around. For now I'll just patiently wait for that opportunity.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragon Pie vs. emerus #209
Post #27 Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:43 pm 
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KGS: DragonPie
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I figured that he'd play this way. But, I feel satisfied that black is in good shape here.

At this point in the game, I don't see him making any real territory anywhere except the top and top left corner. That's perhaps 50 or generously 60 points of territory. My bottom right is probably about 12, my top right is about 13. I have about 25 points with the corner, so I'd just have to hope for about 25 or 35 more points on the rest of the board to out score that moyo if he find a way to enclose the entire thing. Anyhow, because he'll probably make a few points somewhere else on this board, I think I've got to try for about that many to stay up in this game. I still feel like I'm ahead.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragon Pie vs. emerus #209
Post #28 Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:39 am 
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I think Black should immediately have made a large life on top. White'd have a big problem: his territory's gone, his thickness isn't that useful. Black would have big cash and basically only has to live with his two weak stones to win.

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Post #29 Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:24 pm 
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KGS: emerus
Tygem: emerus
OGS: emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Attaching to the stronger stone must be right here.

I really want to get sente out of this, and my plan to do that is to make blacks lower side stone weak.

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Post #30 Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:34 pm 
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Rank: KGS 1D
KGS: DragonPie
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It looks like he's ok with strengthening my stones that comprise my right side moyo in order to weaken my other stone that's closer to his supporting stones on the left. This is probably the best idea for white and I don't like the idea of my right side feeling cramped as it I think it will. Like always, I really would like to get sente to do something about his moyo, but the plus side is that after this sort of exchange, I can probably count on more territory on my right side and it'll be harder to reduce. Of course, he can solidify his corner here a bit, too. I do wish the bottom was more interesting. It would make my double approach better.

I considered other moves that might throw a wrench into his thinking like the wedge, but he has the ladder and I don't see anything that looks particularly promising coming from a move like that. The truth is that I can be happy to get to develop on both sides while getting my right side strengthened for me. It's happiest when the opponent does your work for you.

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Post #31 Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:49 pm 
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KGS: emerus
Tygem: emerus
OGS: emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Staying consistent, I'll keep the lower stone weak and then I should get a chance to attack two weak groups or sente to solidify my corner.

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Post #32 Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:43 pm 
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KGS: DragonPie
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Had a few drinks tonight, so I'm not going to play any moves that aren't obvious. This is it for tonight.

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Post #33 Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:47 pm 
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KGS: emerus
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OGS: emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . . . O 8 . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Dragon Pie vs. emerus #209
Post #34 Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:12 pm 
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Rank: KGS 1D
KGS: DragonPie
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . 7 . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Why not cut directly you ask?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . 3 1 X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . 4 2 O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Because he can treat his two stones lightly and injure my stone instead.

So, instead, I choose to use the aji of the cut to strengthen my group.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . 1 2 O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:b3: is a territorial move, but more importantly, it erodes the base of his group so that it must find his second eye in the center while it strengthens my stone on the bottom that had been weakened a bit by his attachment. Now, the other nice side effect of a strong group here is if I get strong here, it is possible that white's group on the bottom left could become weaker and it is conceivable that I could get to attack it. I don't see it happening just yet, but I'd be very happy if I got a chance to do that.

And of course, as always, I'd love to get sente for the top left group.

I suppose that he could also always use the liberty decreasing move as well. In which case, he might get sente out of this corner because I think that I'll have to protect and he'll live. And then I'll want to make an extension from my two stones. If that's the case, it makes me wonder if I should have seriously reconsidered the wedge when he attached. Perhaps I'd feel less overconcentrated. Oh well.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragon Pie vs. emerus #209
Post #35 Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:16 pm 
Judan

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@DragonPie:
Why not the kosumi? (which is normal in this shape)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . 7 . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Dragon Pie vs. emerus #209
Post #36 Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:28 pm 
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Uberdude wrote:
@DragonPie:
Why not the kosumi? (which is normal in this shape)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . 7 . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Because I didn't know that was the normal shape. Now that you mention it, I think I'd seen it before, but I didn't realize that was considered the normal shape.

Huh. Guess I learn something new every twelfth day.

Now I'm curious about why that shape is considered better or the shape I played is considered worse.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragon Pie vs. emerus #209
Post #37 Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:59 pm 
Judan

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@DragonPie:

Dragon Pie wrote:
Because I didn't know that was the normal shape. Now that you mention it, I think I'd seen it before, but I didn't realize that was considered the normal shape.

Huh. Guess I learn something new every twelfth day.

Now I'm curious about why that shape is considered better or the shape I played is considered worse.


Not something I know, but thinking about it the kosumi is a bit more eye-shapey, and also is further to the left so if you extend in that direction you can go a bit further so it's more efficient, and can more easily jump to the centre with n6. Also your move feels a bit heavy, but it does have some plus points too over the kosumi in that white can't make shape by playing there.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragon Pie vs. emerus #209
Post #38 Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:26 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Options:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . a X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . X . O O c . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . d . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Blacks shape is abnormal, I'd expect either the kosumi or some move on the right side. I'll take a moment to read out some of these variations. 'a'-'d' are my first instinct moves.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragon Pie vs. emerus #209
Post #39 Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:58 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . X . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


My initial 4 options quickly became just two. My plan should stay consistent, I still want a chance to attack black on two fronts or sente to consolidate some territory. I needn't worry about petty corner profit in this situation.

:w28: probes blacks response, while temporarily fixing the cut. I expect black to answer like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28 He can back off at 'a' or fight at 'b'.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 a . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . X . O O b . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The second option that I entertained is this :w1:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . 4 . X . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . 5 3 . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This attack quickly falls short as black's position on the right is extremely thick, white is undercut on the bottom, and white's corner is under threat.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragon Pie vs. emerus #209
Post #40 Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:41 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . X . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It isn't fun that this stone:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . X . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Is played high. It makes it trickier to use to support this fight.

How can I use it? Something like this?

The best I see here is a ko. And even if it did work, it would leave my group short on liberties to still threaten the cut.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . X . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This would be clearly bad:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 1 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X O 2 9 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X 7 . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . 8 X 6 . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . X . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I eyed something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . 8 7 X 5 . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . X . O O 3 . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . 9 4 . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But white can play like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 1 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 X O 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X 5 . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . X 0 O O 3 . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . 4 . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I couldn't find a tesuji to survive that ordeal intact.

Instead, I think I have to bite the bullet and do this version:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 5 |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . . . X . O O 4 . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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