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52. Dusk Eagle (1k) vs "Kerby" (2k) http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=830 |
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Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:31 pm ] |
Post subject: | 52. Dusk Eagle (1k) vs "Kerby" (2k) |
Kerby, a real-life friend of mine (*gasp*), and me will be playing a Malkovich game. Japanese rules, 6.5 komi, closed book. We nigiried and I am black. I keep telling him to change his name, but he insists ![]()
I've played Kerby more times than anyone else. He's a player who makes solid shapes and prefers territory over influence (though he sometimes goes for influence, it's not his prefered style of play). He plays quite strongly, but he has one major weakness: he makes really stupid reading errors sometimes that cost him a ton of points. When we first met, I was 12k and he was 3k. Now, he takes one stone handicap from me in our normal games. Thoughts on ![]() |
Author: | Kerby [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:41 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 49. Dusk Eagle (1k) vs "Kerby" (2k) |
Usually Desk Eagle plays 4-4 corners. I am generally a peaceful player and he almost always initiates the fights in our games. This move is my way of saying I am not afraid of a violent game. |
Author: | ketchup [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:00 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 49. Dusk Eagle (1k) vs "Kerby" (2k) |
Kerby wrote: Usually Desk Eagle +1'd |
Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:26 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 49. Dusk Eagle (1k) vs "Kerby" (2k) |
Thoughts: If I had played a 3-4 in a corner, I *guarantee* he would have approached it right away. As it is, I say there's a >95% chance that he will play in one of the two corners with stones in it already. My tentative plan is to do something like this if he approaches the bottom on the lower 3-4 point:
Whether to do this before or after taking the empty corners is still being debated in my mind. He could also play the other 3-4, in which case, I may just take the 3-3 directly rather than contact his stone:
Picture a white stone on the 3-3, and you can see that a follow-up move in this bottom corner is huge. Sorry... that font size joke was lame. Or... he could start the taisha in the top right. He'll probably say something about trying to annoy me. Do not believe it. I will fight him in the taisha, and I will win. My 5-3 stone could make a pretty target for my two weak stones to run to.
Basics: The taisha is one of the most complex of all joseki. I've fought in the taisha three times against John, but always from the white side in the diagram above. Every single time, he played it like this:
You can bet I won't be trying to keep it simple like that. |
Author: | Kerby [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:59 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 49. Dusk Eagle (1k) vs "Kerby" (2k) |
Ideas + planning I swear this is a joseki line guys.
The reason I am playing this move is I want to be in control of how the game develops. If I take an other corner and he pincers my stone he is in control of the flow of the game. Yet I don't want to start a complex fight(like a taisha branch) while the board is still open. Dusk Eaglet really only has 2 choices 1)continue joseki (which will end in gote for him pretty much guaranteed) or 2)Tenuki and take an other corner. My guess is he will choose the latter. The other reason I chose this move was to create variation, and explore new horizons. Here are some variations I am thinking might happen:
I feel this fighting is good for me. If he plays a 3-4 corner I will consider approaching before attacking his stone here like this.
If he plays joseki I will take an other corner. (there are other ways he can branch, this is just an example of one that I know).
I feel him pincering would be bad fighting for him and would be happy if he chose a route like this. I can personally verify my opponent's avatar does not closely resemble his real appearance. |
Author: | Kerby [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:08 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 49. Dusk Eagle (1k) vs "Kerby" (2k) |
ketchup wrote: Kerby wrote: Usually Desk Eagle +1'd Hey Ketchup was that a reference to this xkcd comic?: http://xkcd.com/151/ grr. I forgot to change it to move 4 in my diagram code. I hope my opponent will forgive my indiscretion. |
Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:21 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 49. Dusk Eagle (1k) vs "Kerby" (2k) |
This is a peaceful 5-3 joseki that he is playing. I have two choices: taking the empty corner or prevent him from pushing down on my stone.
This result seems fine for me. If he had extended to 'a', however, then according to Shukaku Takagawa the push-down is too good for white. There's also the move I played (I believe the keima is okay too). If I were both black and white here, I would continue the game like this:
Obviously the further down that path I read, the less likely it is to actually occur, but this is the idea that is in my head. What if white doesn't play ![]()
Notice that if ![]() However, I'm wondering if this might work for black instead:
It's something to think about. I could also potentially play like this instead:
Or I could play away and aim to make the deep invasion work later on (he will definitely want to cover it sometime soon). |
Author: | Harleqin [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:48 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 49. Dusk Eagle (1k) vs "Kerby" (2k) |
Dusk Eagle: When you say "according to Takagawa Shukaku", which book or source are you referring to? |
Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:54 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 49. Dusk Eagle (1k) vs "Kerby" (2k) |
Harleqin: I'm refering to the book The Vital Points of Go. I should have said that explicitly. I can't check with it now because a) it is a library book and b) that would be cheating, but I remember a section on this extension. By the way, that book is kind of dry. There's good information, but it's presentation is lacking. |
Author: | Kerby [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:38 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 49. Dusk Eagle (1k) vs "Kerby" (2k) |
Thoughts: As per prior discussion. I should end in sente. I am pretty sure I will take the upper left corner after this sequence, not 100% sure where yet though. I will try and figure out what is most beneficial. I am leaning towards "a" though as it seems most limiting to his developing the top.
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Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:47 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 49. Dusk Eagle (1k) vs "Kerby" (2k) |
Until just now I was not aware that a Desk Eagle is a piece of Nazi memorabilia ![]()
Thoughts: So, I originally mentioned taking the bottom empty corner. But then I recalled a principle I have been taught, but until now have never seen an opportunity to use. When there are two large miai points and it is your move, you have two good options: a) Take a third big move. b) Play a sente sequence to increase or decrease the value of one of the moves, and then take the new biggest one. Taking one of the miai points is not as important, as you are guaranteed one of them and it should not make a big difference which. My move is mainly following principle a). I was also worried that if I took an empty corner, Kerby would take the opportunity to apply pressure to my lone 5-3 stone. With a solid group group to the top of it, in particular the 3-10 stone, I do not feel I would be able to get an optimal value out of that stone. So, since I am still going to get one of those two corners, I decided to strengthen my stone and complete my corner. Next, I think the bottom corner is bigger than the top by a tiny bit, due to my shimari on the bottom right, so I expect white to take that, and I will take the top left corner. Basics: The 5-3 stone is good for exerting influence to the top. It does so in exchange for territory should white approach it. Since my influence does not feel very useful here now that black has solidified with ![]() |
Author: | Kerby [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:21 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 49. Dusk Eagle (1k) vs "Kerby" (2k) |
I don't think anyone would think that of you Dusky and it certainly wasn't meant that way.
Ideas: Dilemma... take an other corner or attack Dusk's shape. Here are some of the things I was thinking: This is the attack I was thinking of as it weakens his shape. He can either tenuki here and get his choice of corners or settle his shape quickly with something like a,b,c.
I don't really want him to have the bottom left corner, even after I continue an attack like so.
If I take a corner instead of continuing an attack Mr. Eagle will have to choose to settle his shape or take the upper left:
After much pondering if he settles I feel comfortable taking a tenuki here(perhaps that is just the kyu in me speaking though):
If He takes the corner it will be a grueling game from here on in:
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Author: | Kerby [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:31 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 49. Dusk Eagle (1k) vs "Kerby" (2k) |
For some reason I feel I am already behind. I feel Move 4 wasn't the best choice. I should have started the fight instead of playing passive with a move at either O16 or O17. Grrr. On the plus side I usually play stronger when I feel I am behind. |
Author: | k43r [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:43 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 49. Dusk Eagle (1k) vs "Kerby" (2k) |
I really like how do they think in fuseki |
Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:38 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 49. Dusk Eagle (1k) vs "Kerby" (2k) |
I know it wasn't meant that way. Move coming soon. |
Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:00 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 49. Dusk Eagle (1k) vs "Kerby" (2k) |
Like I said, I'm taking the empty corner. I could not decide between taking the 4-4 and the C16 3-4, so I went with my gut instinct here. I predict a flood of big point moves right about now. |
Author: | ketchup [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:08 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 49. Dusk Eagle (1k) vs "Kerby" (2k) |
Kerby wrote: ketchup wrote: Kerby wrote: Usually Desk Eagle +1'd Hey Ketchup was that a reference to this xkcd comic?: http://xkcd.com/151/ I guess you are new to the internets. It just means I thumb up'd your post. Many other forums have number counters as well, so it's +1 instead of thumbs up. Either way, not really important, I just enjoy the small things. |
Author: | Kerby [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:25 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 49. Dusk Eagle (1k) vs "Kerby" (2k) |
ketchup wrote: I guess you are new to the internets. It just means I thumb up'd your post. Many other forums have number counters as well, so it's +1 instead of thumbs up. Either way, not really important, I just enjoy the small things. Not new to the interwebs, I'm just not usually in forums. P.S. Knowing "Dusk Eagle" in person I find it hard to call him that as he doesn't seem like the Eagle type. I think his personality would be better suited by Dusk Beagle. So I doubt I will call him "Dusk Eagle" in many of my posts and try to vary up what I call him loosely based on his UID. |
Author: | Kerby [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:24 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 49. Dusk Eagle (1k) vs "Kerby" (2k) |
Ideas: As prior mentioned Triggers for Dusk:
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Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:16 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 52. Dusk Eagle (1k) vs "Kerby" (2k) |
Just a note, I changed the number for this game because a Violence vs Magicwand game apparently already has #49. Back to studying Chemistry... |
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