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Offline uriel
 Post subject: Re: #224. graemy vs uriel
Post #101 Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:23 am 
Dies with sente
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Posts: 86
Liked others: 13
Was liked: 3
Rank: KGS 1kyu
KGS: uriel/ross
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm74 Captures: B=0 W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . B O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O X X . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . O . X . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The only move. I read a bit more into these responses, and I think this is the better continuation for both sides.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm74 Captures: B=0 W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . X O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . B O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O X X . 3 . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . O . X . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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"It has cost me much, but I have learned... Lemon need not squeeze lemon to survive..!"
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Offline graemy
 Post subject: Re: #224. graemy vs uriel
Post #102 Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:53 pm 
Dies with sente

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Was liked: 1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm74 Captures: B=0 W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . X O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O X X . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . O . X . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

As before
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Offline uriel
 Post subject: Re: #224. graemy vs uriel
Post #103 Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:03 pm 
Dies with sente
User avatar

Posts: 86
Liked others: 13
Was liked: 3
Rank: KGS 1kyu
KGS: uriel/ross
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm76 Captures: B=0 W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . B . X O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O X X . 1 . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . O . X . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well, here we are. Black has sente again, time to see where graemy will play.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm76 Captures: B=0 W=0\n\n I expect one of the following. Taking the corner immediately would be quite a pain for me,\n and given how rarely we've played tenuki so far that's my hunch. Unless I've misread it,\n black could take the corner without too much trouble. Of the two approaches to the top left I expect b,\n since I can undercut any potential moyo on the top. Then again, perhaps graemy will protect his cut... although so far that seems against what I've seen so far.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . c . . . . . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . d . X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . B . X O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O X X . 1 . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . a . . X O . O . X . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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"It has cost me much, but I have learned... Lemon need not squeeze lemon to survive..!"
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Offline Aphelion
 Post subject: Re: #224. graemy vs uriel
Post #104 Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:28 am 
Lives in sente
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Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Strange that Uriel didn't consider this? This looks crushing to me:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . c . . . . . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . d . X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . B . O X X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . a . . X O . O . X . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline graemy
 Post subject: Re: #224. graemy vs uriel
Post #105 Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:50 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 79
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm76 Captures: B=0 W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 2 . O X X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . O . X . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I want to play into his corner, but I feel like I should play like this first.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm76 Captures: B=0 W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . W X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . a . X O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . B . O X X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . O . X . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I need to be careful of a counter attack with the marked white stone, but I think that he is too weak to do something with it for now. He'll probably peep at a and take care of his stones in some way. His corner is still open, so I still have that. I think this fight will benefit me more than him.
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Offline tomukaze
 Post subject: Re: #224. graemy vs uriel
Post #106 Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:28 am 
Lives with ko
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Posts: 204
Liked others: 26
Was liked: 27
Rank: KGS 3 Kyu
KGS: seanachain
DGS: seanachain
Nice game guys. I am really enjoying the comments!

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我が道を行く。
I'll do it my way....
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Offline uriel
 Post subject: Re: #224. graemy vs uriel
Post #107 Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:07 pm 
Dies with sente
User avatar

Posts: 86
Liked others: 13
Was liked: 3
Rank: KGS 1kyu
KGS: uriel/ross
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm78 Captures: B=0 W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 1 . X O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . B . O X X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . O . X . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


After some reading here, I think my best option here is to fight. If it turns into a running battle, I can aim for the cut at K9, and I think I can prevent graemy from settling easily here. My connection should be sente, so, I'm not worried about being cut here. I cannot play passively here, since in solid territory I'm quite behind; I need this attack to profit.

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"It has cost me much, but I have learned... Lemon need not squeeze lemon to survive..!"
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Offline graemy
 Post subject: Re: #224. graemy vs uriel
Post #108 Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:46 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 79
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm78 Captures: B=0 W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . X O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . O . X . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm gonna try to connect in sente here and then play at a. After that, I'll wait and see how he deals with the two black stones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm78 Captures: B=0 W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . a . X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . X O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . B . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . O . X . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The corner is still open and if I do get to defend, then jumping out would be alright.
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Offline uriel
 Post subject: Re: #224. graemy vs uriel
Post #109 Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:53 pm 
Dies with sente
User avatar

Posts: 86
Liked others: 13
Was liked: 3
Rank: KGS 1kyu
KGS: uriel/ross
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm80 Captures: B=0 W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . X O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 B . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . O . X . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm pretty sure this is the only move here

_________________
"It has cost me much, but I have learned... Lemon need not squeeze lemon to survive..!"
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Offline graemy
 Post subject: Re: #224. graemy vs uriel
Post #110 Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:02 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 79
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm80 Captures: B=0 W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 2 . X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . X O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . O . X . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Let's see how he plays here.
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Offline uriel
 Post subject: Re: #224. graemy vs uriel
Post #111 Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:45 pm 
Dies with sente
User avatar

Posts: 86
Liked others: 13
Was liked: 3
Rank: KGS 1kyu
KGS: uriel/ross
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm82 Captures: B=0 W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . B . X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 1 . O . X O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . O . X . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think I have enough ko threats to fight the c3 ko. Either way, I cannot let him drive me into the center, or passively connect under.

_________________
"It has cost me much, but I have learned... Lemon need not squeeze lemon to survive..!"
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Offline graemy
 Post subject: Re: #224. graemy vs uriel
Post #112 Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:36 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 79
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 1
Okay, so I'm thinking of playing tow different things.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm82 Captures: B=0 W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . W . O . X O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 O . X . O X X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | . 6 2 3 . X O . O . X . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I can play in the corner, most likely in gote. Then he can play on the outside first. If he gives me sente, then I can play on the outside and I will be leading.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm82 Captures: B=0 W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . b . . . . . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . c . . . , . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . W . O . X O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . O . X . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Or, I could approach his corner first. Maybe I could take sente to then play in the bottom left corner. Or, if he plays in the corner to take territory, then I get a second move on the outside.

I'm having trouble deciding between these two ideas.


I'm glad you're enjoying the game, tomukaze.
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Offline graemy
 Post subject: Re: #224. graemy vs uriel
Post #113 Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:20 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 79
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm82 Captures: B=0 W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . O . X O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . X O . O . X . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Okay, the corner is ko. So I'm going to see if he'll let me live. If he goes for ko, I'll leave it and play elsewhere.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm82 Captures: B=0 W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . O . X O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . 2 3 . X W . O . X . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . 4 5 . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This sets up the ko. The white marked stone really hurts for me. Let's see what he does.
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Offline uriel
 Post subject: Re: #224. graemy vs uriel
Post #114 Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:45 pm 
Dies with sente
User avatar

Posts: 86
Liked others: 13
Was liked: 3
Rank: KGS 1kyu
KGS: uriel/ross
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm84 Captures: B=0 W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . O . X O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . B 1 . X O . O . X . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm85 Captures: B=0 W=0\n\n The squares are ko threats that I can find. Black has more threats that are quite a pain,\n but I think these are the only ones I must respond to for sure. This ko is worth about 40+ points from my count\n which makes it too big to ignore.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O # O Z O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O Z O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X O Z Z O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . @ Y O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . @ X O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X Y X O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . O @ X O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X Y O . . Q # . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . X W Y X O . O . X . O Q . O O X . |
$$ | . 3 . 1 2 Y @ . . . . X Q # . . . X . |
$$ | . . 5 4 @ . . . . . . . # . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"It has cost me much, but I have learned... Lemon need not squeeze lemon to survive..!"
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Offline graemy
 Post subject: Re: #224. graemy vs uriel
Post #115 Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:23 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 79
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm84 Captures: B=0 W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . O . X O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O . O . X . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think I might play the ko out...mostly on a whim :D I think it'll be fun, it's probably not the best thing to do. I'll probably have to take two moves somewhere else.
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Offline uriel
 Post subject: Re: #224. graemy vs uriel
Post #116 Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:57 pm 
Dies with sente
User avatar

Posts: 86
Liked others: 13
Was liked: 3
Rank: KGS 1kyu
KGS: uriel/ross
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm86 Captures: B=0 W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . O . X O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O . O . X . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . B 1 . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Unless I'm missing a clever kill here (and I think I've checked every line), I have to fight this ko. Luckily I take first...

_________________
"It has cost me much, but I have learned... Lemon need not squeeze lemon to survive..!"
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Offline graemy
 Post subject: Re: #224. graemy vs uriel
Post #117 Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:06 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 79
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm86 Captures: B=0 W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . O . X O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O . O . X . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I keep changing my mind :I My plan is to get him to play on the left and then maybe I'll invade or try to build up the center.
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Offline uriel
 Post subject: Re: #224. graemy vs uriel
Post #118 Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:04 pm 
Dies with sente
User avatar

Posts: 86
Liked others: 13
Was liked: 3
Rank: KGS 1kyu
KGS: uriel/ross
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm88 Captures: B=0 W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . O . X O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O . O . X . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I really didn't think graemy would tenuki here... But I realized I can give up the corner in sente, so at worst I have a ko in the corner. I think in this case I can't take gote here, even for a huge move. It's not any smaller than the top left corner, so this should be smaller.

_________________
"It has cost me much, but I have learned... Lemon need not squeeze lemon to survive..!"
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Offline skydyr
 Post subject: Re: #224. graemy vs uriel
Post #119 Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:54 am 
Oza

Posts: 2494
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Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
uriel wrote:
I think in this case I can't take gote here, even for a huge move. It's not any smaller than the top left corner, so this should be smaller.

I'm a little confused by this statement in conjunction with the one-space jump, as I gather that tends to end in gote compared to the small-knight's move.
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Offline graemy
 Post subject: Re: #224. graemy vs uriel
Post #120 Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:11 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 79
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm88 Captures: B=0 W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X X O O X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . X X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . O . X O . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O . O . X . O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Center focus O:
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