Life In 19x19
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#231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=9917
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Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

jonsa wrote:
... I want to see the conclusion!)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_number

Author:  paK0 [ Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

I can already see it, ten years from now this game and mine with Kirby will still be going with about a move per year during the more active periods :lol:

Author:  drmwc [ Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

I saw there were new posts, and thought it may be my move...

At least we are using Fibonacci, and not Busy Beaver!

Author:  ez4u [ Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:06 am ]
Post subject: 

ez4u wrote:
BTW, what is the record for slow play in a Malkovich? This game began on Feb. 26 last year. :)

I posted this in February 2015! :blackeye:

Author:  hyperpape [ Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

I wonder, does everyone involved know whose turn it is?

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

hyperpape wrote:
I wonder, does everyone involved know whose turn it is?


It is my turn. At last I think it is. Regardless, I'm going to move next.
I just need some time to think about it.

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Tue May 28, 2019 1:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . X B . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


This stone contains his group, and connects to my center group like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O 1 X B . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

or like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O 1 X X . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . 2 O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Author:  drmwc [ Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

I read a while ago (maybe in a Kageyama book? Or maybe the Treasure Chest Enigma?) that if your opponent spends 1 hour on a move, you should spend 2 hours on the response.

I moved in November 2017; and the reply was May 2019. So I think that give me 3 years for the next move, or a May 2022 target.

Author:  Bill Spight [ Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

drmwc wrote:
I read a while ago (maybe in a Kageyama book? Or maybe the Treasure Chest Enigma?) that if your opponent spends 1 hour on a move, you should spend 2 hours on the response.


I am put in mind of a story about Emmanuel Lasker by a British player who played against him in a tournament after Lasker was no longer world champion. The player wanted to sacrifice a knight against Lasker, and because it was Lasker, he checked his reading more than once to make sure that the sacrifice was sound. To his surprise, Lasker replied almost immediately, and declined the sacrifice. After the game he asked Lasker how he had figured out his move so quickly. Lasker replied, "If a strong master thinks for a half hour and then offers me a knight, I think I should not take it." ;)

Also, if my opponent thinks for one hour on a move, someone should wake me up. :lol:

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

drmwc wrote:
... I think that give me 3 years for the next move, or a May 2022 target.


Sure. No problem. I wouldn't want you to feel rushed.
But there is an upper bound...https://www.space.com/14732-sun-burns-star-death.html

Author:  bobmcg [ Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

drmwc wrote:
I read a while ago (maybe in a Kageyama book? Or maybe the Treasure Chest Enigma?) that if your opponent spends 1 hour on a move, you should spend 2 hours on the response.

I moved in November 2017; and the reply was May 2019. So I think that give me 3 years for the next move, or a May 2022 target.


This bit of advice regarding doubling the time your opponent takes is quoted in a story told by Nakayama in Gokyou Monogatari. A translated version appeared in issue number 50 of "Go World". It involved episodes of contests of endurance during the tournament for qualification for pro shodan in around 1932. In those days no clocks were used in the qualification tournament. Nakayama described two cases. One involved the late Hoshino Toshi whose opponent took eight hours to make a move and Hoshino, quoted his teacher regarding doubling the time, and took 16 hours to make a pretty obvious move. The game continued in this fashion, as did the next two games and Hoshino played for six days without sleep. The other case involved Nakayama's teacher, Suzuki Goro, and Sakata.

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

drmwc wrote:
I read a while ago (maybe in a Kageyama book? Or maybe the Treasure Chest Enigma?) that if your opponent spends 1 hour on a move, you should spend 2 hours on the response.

I moved in November 2017; and the reply was May 2019. So I think that give me 3 years for the next move, or a May 2022 target.


Shall we make byo-yomi six months?

Author:  ez4u [ Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

I think it's time to admit that both players have lost on time. :blackeye:

Author:  drmwc [ Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Thanks for the reminder! I will aim to make a move some time this year....

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Joaz Banbeck wrote:
...
Shall we make byo-yomi six months?


I just noticed in another thread, ( https://lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic ... 81#p246881 ) a more relaxed byo-yomi was used. That seems to set a precedent. So the proper term should be ten years.

Sorry to have rushed you.

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Something to entertain you observers for the next couple of years:
To get an idea of where the game stands now, lets count points.

Black has 20 in the upper right, 20 in the lower right, and 10 in the upper left. A play at E18 grabs another 10.
If white secures E18 in gote, black gets at least 10 in the lower left side.
Even if we round down, it is hard to imagine black with less than 55 points.

White gets maybe 15 on the right, another 15 in the lower left, 5 up top, and a few miscellaneous points elsewhere.
It looks like about 40 points, maybe 50 if everything in yose goes white's way. ( And this is assuming that white somehow saves his top middle group )

In summary, with even the most white-biased counting, black still wins.

Thus the only way for white to win is to kill something. Another way of phrasing that is that black need only secure life for all of his groups to win.

Let's start with the most dubious proposition above: that white's upper middle group can live.

He can try something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . 6 5 . 1 2 . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O 3 X 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . 9 . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O 7 X X . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . 8 O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


...or this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . 6 5 . . 1 2 . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O 3 X 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . 0 . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O 7 X X . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . 8 O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


I don't see how it lives. ( It gets tricky around P15 in some lines, but black always comes out ahead. )

Author:  Kirby [ Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

If you guys wait long enough, some of the stones might decay, and you’ll have a different board position to deal with.

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

drmwc wrote:
Thanks for the reminder! I will aim to make a move some time this year....


You only have 16 days left in this year.

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