Teamovitch #1

topazg · **#241**

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

The post that you quote was unfinished. I was trying to correct a typo and accidentally posted it.

Ah, ok, that makes sense, although it makes me ask an even bigger question:

I see you changed you comment to fifth line territory - where is that exactly?

For one thing, White can jump out here, and Black has no option other than to be sealed in. :b21:

is hardly a healthy stone, and the corner can now by undermined very easily, let alone White's thick outside wall. What's your counter-strategy leading to 5th line territory?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm18 $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 7 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 9 6 3 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 W . O . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . 4 . 1 . B . , . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

topazg wrote:

Also, I think that M3 is an overplay needs to be proved over the board still, don't you?

I'm waiting for suggestions to crush it. :mrgreen:

Haha, that's just wishful thinking on your part

MrGreen is the name of that smiley - Reservoir Dogs comes to mind all of a sudden, now maybe I should be a bit more scared

Joaz Banbeck · **#242**

I was thinking of this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 7 1 2 . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 6 X O . O . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . X 8 O . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...or this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 9 3 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 8 1 2 . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 0 5 4 6 X O . O . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . X 7 O . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

And, yes, I too would like to hear opinions by stronger players...but I won't tip them for it.

emeraldemon · **#243**

For Joaz:

Joaz Banbeck · **#244**

emeraldemon wrote:

For Joaz:

Just one move later it is definitely too early to tell. ( Even on my bad days I can read an extra move deeper if I need to. )
The impression that it is an overplay is not a purely tactical judgement. It is based more on a overall assement of the board. All of our other groups are safe: a strong shimari in the lower left, a 3-3 invasion in the upper left that can be pushed around but not seriously hurt, and a 3-stone shimari in the upper right that may be invadable but still has lots of room to slide along the upper side if the invasion works. On the other hand, the white stones on the left side are thin, and the stones on the right have to constantly worry that any play on the right side may unleash the R8 stone.
In a situation like that, in which one side has notably safer groups, it seems very risky to start a fight. Now maybe they can live in sente on the lower side, jump to the upper left to connect their thin stones with forcing moves while retaining sente, and then come back to smother our R8 stone with Q9. If Topazg has a scheme for doing that, then M3 is not an overplay.
But what is likely to happen is that this generates a big running fight, and sooner or later we will get strong somewhere in the center ( as either the lower right group or the lower left moves out while attacking ), and then we will play C12 or reactivate R8. We might have one weak group as we come running out of the lower right without stopping to make eyes, but they will be saddled with multiple weak groups. That should favor us.

The ideal position looks something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm18 This, BTW, does not indicate exact moves, it just illustrates the general flow of the game $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . O . O . X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . X . , . . . X . , X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In summary, I favor the opinion that white has overplayed.

Jordus · **#245**

BIC:

Some Quick Ideas:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . 1 5 . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . 7 2 3 O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 8 4 6 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . X O . O . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . 6 1 4 . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . 8 2 3 O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 7 2 . X O . O . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . . 4 3 5 X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . 1 6 O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Jedo · **#246**

topazg wrote:

MrGreen is the name of that smiley - Reservoir Dogs comes to mind all of a sudden, now maybe I should be a bit more scared

There was no Mr. Green in RD, but if only there were a smiley named Mr Pink...

Jedo · **#247**

Black suggestion

Ok, time to attack.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm20 Move 20 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . 2 . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think this is how to do it. What I'm trying to encourage is a series of jumping out, which will bring the aji of our stone to life. If we just keep coming out, we can hane before too long:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm20 Move 20 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 0 8 9 . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 a . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . X O . O . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , b . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . 2 . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Pushing at a and living at b are now miai. White can play it differently and kosumi instead of pushing forward, but this puts even less pressure on us. With respect to Jordus' 4th line pincer, I think's it's the wrong way since it doesn't put quite enough pressure on white by giving him eyespace.

Joaz Banbeck · **#248**

Just to make sure that everyone is on the same page after the interesting diversions, the board looks like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm20 Move 20 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...and it is black's move.

To observers and teammates:

For observers only:

@Topazg: "Resevoir Dogs'? Wasn't that a film about how a bunch of white guys made some bad decisions, argued with each other, and ended up dead? :lol:

fwiffo · **#249**

Black suggestion:

I don't believe there was a Mr. Green in Reservoir dogs. Just Brown, Blue, Blond, Pink, Orange and White.

Jordus · **#250**

Black Suggestion:

topazg · **#251**

Joaz wrote:

@Topazg: "Resevoir Dogs'? Wasn't that a film about how a bunch of white guys made some bad decisions, argued with each other, and ended up dead? :lol:

Thanks for that

(very nice!)

Joaz Banbeck · **#252**

Sorry folks, work has gotten real busy lately. I'll try to post tomorrow.

Joaz Banbeck · **#253**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Move 21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . 1 . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'll post comments on the choice of moves later.

For observers only:

Redundant · **#254**

WIC:

tj86430 · **#255**

WIC:

topazg · **#256**

To teammates other than chew until he's picked a move too:

To observers:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Move 21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . 3 2 . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . 1 . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is something I'm looking at, but Black probably won't block:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Move 21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . 4 2 . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . 5 1 . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Too thin? Will really need to think about this before playing.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Move 21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 3 O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . X O . O . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . 1 . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is simple and effective - if I can't read how effective the kosumi and jump is, this looks like a safe and simple idea. Black doesn't want to be running like this, it's just a dame-chain. We finally have a chance to make Black squirm a bit, but we do still really want to return to the top left.

Chew Terr · **#257**

Oh, WIC stands for white internal chat!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Move 21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . 2 . . . . . . a . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . 1 . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Something (anything) in this corner seems huge, and potentially larger than anything on bottom. If we play up here, I feel like B may have to respond. If B captures our last move solidly, we can play something like 'a' to destabilize the top right (I think). Playing R17 is much benefitted by having a threat to connect out both sides, so M17 looks severe. And if black stopped to defend after M17, we can fall back, claiming the top in a huge way.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Move 21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . 2 . . . 6 . . 4 5 X . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , 3 . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . 1 . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

No idea where 5 would be, but it's the general idea I'm getting at.

Joaz Banbeck · **#258**

Perhaps we should spell it out for the new observers.

Joaz Banbeck · **#259**

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

...

I'll post comments on the choice of moves later...

For observers and teammates:

[Grumble] I'm not happy with the choices. I have two suggestions of pushing from the left, whereupon white runs out; and one choice of attacking from the right, whereupon white runs out.

The general pattern look the same. Like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 3 . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . X O . O . . | $$ | . . X , . . . 5 . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . 1 . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...or like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Move 21 $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 3 . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . X O . O . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . 1 . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...or like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Move 21 $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . C . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 6 . 3 . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . X O . O . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . 2 . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . 4 . . . O 1 . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The same thing happens: black gets out, but with very little influence, as white is to both the left and right. White's attacked group lives relatively easily. On the other side, white can play Q9, securing 20+points. We are then faced with the fact that, with both neighboring enemy groups safe, our group has no purpose.

It won't make life easily in the middle, so the best it can do is to scramble for life in the corner like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O 2 . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , 1 3 . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...which is gote and compels white to secure the side.

The proper direction, IMHO, was to push white down. We are ahead in secured territory. We can afford to give white 10-15 points on the lower side. In return, we would get a group that means something. I wanted the shoulder hit, like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Move 21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . , C . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . C . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . C . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . X O . O . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . 5 3 1 6 . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . 4 2 O . 9 . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

At this point, we would still be ahead in territory. We probably finish the bottom with sente, and then we go attacking with C12 ( Maybe C7 or D8 or E16 or P11 first ). Then our group would have some meaning.

[/grumble]

Well, it is time to make lemonade. As our group does have some purpose as long as one of the local enemy groups is insecure, the best we can do is make the most aggressive move which will prevent the white lower middle group from getting life as long as possible. So I choose M3.

PS: All diagrams in this post are intended to show general flow. They are not advocates of a particular sequence.

topazg · **#260**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm22 Move 22 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X O . O . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

To team and observers:

Chew's area of the board is huge, and we really want sente to get back there (I mean, really really want!), but the local area is just too urgent right now. The reason I've gone for this move is, in both cases, I think Black will change directions and lean over, as forcing White to keep running out seems really bad for Black:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm22 Move 22 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . 1 . X O . O . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Now black has sealed himself in the corner and created all sorts of problems. Instead, I expect something like the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm22 Move 22 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 4 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 7 . 3 2 . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X O . O . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . . . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Which should give us scope to attack the bottom edge and the lower right corner, and mostly secures the death of Black's stone on the right.

I rejected the kosumi because I think it prioritises the wrong side:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm22 Move 22 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 2 . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . 3 1 . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . 4 X . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White's real target for actual kill-profit is the stone at the bottom, and we don't want to make it any stronger. I considered this move in seriousness, so I think it's a really good local suggestion, but getting the move direction right so the sequence flows in our favour is a difficult thing to judge.

Teamovitch #1

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