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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #301 Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:11 am 
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Sorry, finally back from vacation. Hopefully a bit of rest and downtime will improve my quality of play.
White internal chat:
Obviously, there are three options here: split, escape, or tenuki. I tend to play a slightly thin style (heh, slightly) out of a desire to play fast, all over the board. However, I like to think that it's important to consider every option.

As has been suggested we should not split unless we can offer a severe attack. Similarly, we need not defend unless black similarly has a severe attack.

Long story short, I agree with Red. The value of 'a' is that it is a double threat. Not only does it offer a threat against the lone stone, it lets us pressure the larger group, forcing it to run. However, we cannot do that unless we are safe. If we are weak, black will simply lean on us to get out. Thus, 'b', to threaten to separate in good form. As far as the severity of an attack on our stones goes: I think we cannot be killed as it stands. However, black would gain thickness from attacking, which we certainly don't want. If we can make a threat sente enough or valuable enough to be worth that thickness. I think that we should agree to recommend the existing suggestions 'a', 'b', and add a tenuki suggestion, such as C6, E17, or... something. If you guys want to suggest 'a' and 'b', I would appreciate advice on the best tenuki. 'a' and 'b' are both strong moves, so I think they should be suggested, regardless. As I cannot find another comparable local alternative, the third option need not be local.

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #302 Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:17 pm 
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To observers:

Actually, I want a different move to red's proposals:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28 - Move 28 - 0 prisoners
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . . . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X 1 O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This keeps White's stones completely connected, Black's stones completely disconnected, and lets us really do some damage on the bottom edge if Black ignores. If Black responds, we get to keep chasing that big group.

I consider either of the following options complete failures because Black connects. And the descent allows Black to wedge and has miai of cuts after he connects (not something he'll play just yet, but it means White has to already be aware of a ladder and ladder breakers that he'd rather not be worrying about):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28 - Move 28 - 0 prisoners
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . 1 . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28 - Move 28 - 0 prisoners
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . a O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . . 3 2 4 X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X b O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #303 Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:23 pm 
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At observers again:

Maybe aiming at this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28 - Move 28 - 0 prisoners
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 7 . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . 5 . 6 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . 2 . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X 1 O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #304 Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:30 pm 
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to observers only:
below diag is suggested by topazg but i am not comfortable with it.
reason being ..1 and 2 exchange is very very bad trade.
if it will capture the group then it is ok but...black is perfectly safe.
and in my opinion white didnt get enough out of that bad trade.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28 - Move 28 - 0 prisoners
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 7 . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . 5 . 6 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . 2 . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X 1 O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #305 Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:32 pm 
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**Bump**

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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #306 Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:56 pm 
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**Set**
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Offline Jordus
 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #307 Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:37 pm 
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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #308 Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:24 pm 
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My suggestions:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . W . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Okay, I'll go out on a limb and suggest a tenuki for mine.

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Offline tj86430
 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #309 Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:12 am 
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To all: I'm sorry, I'm on vacation right now, and the connection is terrible. I will be back on the 17th, and then I can concentrate on this fully.

WIC:

I can't see Chew's diagram (don't know why), but I get that he suggested tenuki. I will suggest K7.

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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #310 Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:18 am 
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Suggestion:
To give topaz the full range of options, I suggest the descent.
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #311 Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:10 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28 Move 28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


To the team:
Actually, I was hoping for L3, forcing Black to extend to prevent K4, fixing our cuts, and preventing Black from connecting underneath, all in sente. That way, we can carry on chasing them, although I'm concerned they can settle too easy in the corner. My concern with this move is the wedge at M4 and subsequent L5 cut. Please can we invest a few brain cells on what to do if this happens and the ladder doesn't work for us?

@TJ, I want to play around there, but the only purpose is to pressure Black. If Black connects underneath at the point we just played, the move becomes meaningless.

@Chew, Local is too urgent. It's a nice tenuki as far as they go though ;)

@Red, Local is good, and the move serves all our main needs. Definitely happy with this one.
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #312 Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:39 pm 
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Black suggestions?
I want K5, of course.

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Offline Jedo
 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #313 Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:03 pm 
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black suggestion
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28 Move 28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Pretty straightforward, just want to keep the pressure up on white. Not too worried about our k line stone for now. Maybe this
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28 Move 28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 5 3 2 X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Jordus
 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #314 Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:58 pm 
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Black Internal Chat:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . f . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . b e X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . c . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . a . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O d . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


ok.. what to do what to do...

Moves (a) and (d) are focused on creating a base for our group, however, I feel like we can get away with making a move elsewhere before worrying about that group since it has a basic base and can still run out from the top.

Moves (b) and (e) run and attack at the same time... Again it focuses on our group though...

Move (c) attacks whites group while helping to build a wall. This move forces white to run I think, which focuses attention back to our black group I was thinking about protecting... .

Move (f)... we could play elsewhere like (f), but (c) looks bigger than any other move I can think of...

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Offline fwiffo
 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #315 Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:06 am 
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Black suggestion:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . a . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O b . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Jedo took the turn, which was my first choice. The idea behind jumping here is to continue to attack white's group while building up the lower left area of the board. I think our corner group is still safe enough that we don't have to worry about trying to play a move like a or b yet.

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Offline Jordus
 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #316 Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:03 am 
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Black Suggestion:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29 Move 29
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . f . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . b e X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . c . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . a . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O d . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As stated before, (a) and (d) are not needed.
Jedo chose (e). Fwiffo chose (c).
That leaves me (b); however, after looking at it for a while, I decided (b) just doesn't work. It allows white to play at (c) effectively letting white run straight into what could have been blacks moyo... So I decided to throw in a move at :b29:. It starts a possible wall, and is an overly aggressive approach at attacking white. From what I see, depending on how aggressive whites response is, things can go good or bad. If they play aggressively, it could go bad, however if they stick to their current form of play (more territorial than locally aggressive) the move might play out well for black...

(FYI if my train of thought seems to be a little jumpy and hard to follow, I blame a lack of sleep... ;-) )

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #317 Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:21 pm 
Judan
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29 Move 29
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I really did want to play K5 ( or K6 ) taking territory in the lower left, and getting everybody running northward. But K5 is too thin to be a threat, whereas their automatic reply at M7 does threaten to enclose us:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29 Move 29
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . 7 6 4 3 5 X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . 8 X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If K5 was too thin, then K6 was too. That leaves M7 as the only reasonable play.

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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #318 Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:36 pm 
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Suggestion
I vote for the jump to k6. We need to get out, and definitely can't hane.
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #319 Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:18 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30 Move 30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


To team:

This is, as far as I can see, completely forced. Slightly uncomfortable, but could be a lot worse. I assume Black's going to extend again, so some thoughts about our next move would be great :)


To observers:

Now this is why I wanted to bump. I wanted us to play here first, and then the bump is either sente, or we play K4 in response to this bend. Now, we float :(
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #320 Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:50 am 
Judan
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To observers:
Tactical necessities force us to go westward once, but I still believe that the proper direction is northward.
Continuing westward looks bad:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30 Move 30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . 5 3 , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . 4 X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


We must force the northward flow again:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30 Move 30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . 4 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 3 X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now we are high enough that any attempt to push westward forces us to take big territory:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30 Move 30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . 4 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 5 . . 3 X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 . . 1 . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...or:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30 Move 30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . 4 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 3 X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 0 9 7 5 1 . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 6 2 . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Board index » L19²GO (Malkovich) » Other versions of turn-based games

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