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Mafia-style Go
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=296		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Phelan [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Mafia-style Go
Hey guys (and gals).

I'm a big fan of a game called Werewolf (aka Mafia), a hidden role game where you try to find the werewolves hiding among you.

I've been thinking about a Go version that would have the same interest, and this is what I came up with:

Participants are divided into two teams, black and white. Each participant only knows his own color, not the others' colors.
For every move(both black and white), players should nominate possible moves, and then vote on them. The most voted move is played. Everyone suggests and votes moves for both colors.

At every X (possibly 10?) moves, everyone votes on one person to leave the game. The most voted is out, and the next move begins.

The last team with members still in the game wins. (White wins ties. :p)

It would of course need a gamemaster, as werewolf does.

What do you think? Is this playable? Do you want to play it?
Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mafia-style Go
If you know your team, you know the other team. This could work if each player only knew which side they were on but not who else was on their side, though, I think. Is who votes for what public knowledge?

It might be best to collect nominations and votes at sensei's library, otherwise it would take a lot of posts.
Author:  Jordus [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mafia-style Go
daniel_the_smith wrote:
If you know your team, you know the other team. This could work if each player only knew which side they were on but not who else was on their side, though, I think. Is who votes for what public knowledge?

It might be best to collect nominations and votes at sensei's library, otherwise it would take a lot of posts.



I believe what he means is each player is secretly assigned a team so no other player knows what any other player was assigned. As that is how mafia is played. Though mafia has 4 teams kinda..... sheriff, nurse, mafia, and citizens....
Author:  Phelan [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mafia-style Go
Yep, that's what I meant, each player knows only his color, he doesn't know anyone else's color. And using senseis would not be so good, I think, as anyone could change it anonymously.

Edit: Jordus, not really, the sheriff and the nurse win with the citizens, so they're part of team citizen. There are some other setups other than the normal one that have more teams, but it's usual to have two teams.
Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mafia-style Go
I see.

It could be interesting; stronger players would have to come up with moves that were wrong for subtler reasons, and they have to judge whether weaker players are playing intentionally bad moves or not.

It would definitely be entertaining...

Hmm, votes and nominations by PM then?
Author:  Phelan [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mafia-style Go
I think they could be done in the game's thread, so everyone can see who nominates/votes what/who. That's how it's usually done.
Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mafia-style Go
I'm in for this.
Author:  fwiffo [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mafia-style Go
Sounds interesting. How many players per team would we need? Presumably the gamemaster would be in charge of selecting teams that were balanced in terms of rank and presumed meta-gaming skills. I presume there would be time limits on suggestions and votes (and if you don't get in a suggestion or vote, that's just tough luck).
Author:  Jordus [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mafia-style Go
maybe the mafia variable should remain. Have a mole or two in each team. The moles tries to sway votes on the team in the "wrong" direction. Then, instead of just voting off one person, each team takes a vote after n(variable) amount of moves on who the mole is in their team. The person with the most votes against them on each team is voted off. The identity of the moles are not revealed until the end of the game.
Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mafia-style Go
I think I liked it better as originally proposed; everyone on the opposite team from you is a "mole" to you...
Author:  Kirby [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mafia-style Go
I think that there needs to be a tie-in with the actual game result, which doesn't seem to have been mentioned. For example, if there is no incentive to play good moves at all, people could continue to play moves that were bad on purpose, just so that they don't get eliminated.

One alternative would be to play the game in the same way, except have it so that in the end, at least some people are not eliminated. The game result would be determined by the actual game result score. So if I am black, and I want to play the best possible move that I can so that black will win -- but, I don't want to play *too* good of a move for fear of being eliminated. Without using the game result, I have no incentive to make a good move.

But if we do something like the above, I think that it would work, and it would be pretty fun.

Can I play?
Author:  Phelan [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mafia-style Go
fwiffo wrote:
Sounds interesting. How many players per team would we need? Presumably the gamemaster would be in charge of selecting teams that were balanced in terms of rank and presumed meta-gaming skills. I presume there would be time limits on suggestions and votes (and if you don't get in a suggestion or vote, that's just tough luck).


You presume correctly on all counts. :)
I think that 8 players should be enough, and it might even be playable with less.

Jordus wrote:
maybe the mafia variable should remain. Have a mole or two in each team. The moles tries to sway votes on the team in the "wrong" direction. Then, instead of just voting off one person, each team takes a vote after n(variable) amount of moves on who the mole is in their team. The person with the most votes against them on each team is voted off. The identity of the moles are not revealed until the end of the game.


I tried making something more mafia-like, but then there is the problem of balance. How could you balance the teams like that? If you happen to give a handicap, you're giving out information about who is who. My variant was the only one I could think of where I could more easily balance the teams without giving information when I set the komi/handicap.

Daniel, if you know who is on your team, you know who is on the other. Or was that not what you meant?
Author:  Phelan [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mafia-style Go
Kirby, my intention was to have a tie break with the result. As in, if one black and one white player remain, the game decides who wins. I thought it could be too long, though.

Of course you can. :D
Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mafia-style Go
I meant no one should have information about anyone's side except their own. We're in agreement, I'm pretty sure.
Author:  Jordus [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mafia-style Go
if you vote every 20-25 moves then the chances that the game finishes normally will be much greater.
Author:  Kirby [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mafia-style Go
Phelan wrote:
Kirby, my intention was to have a tie break with the result. As in, if one black and one white player remain, the game decides who wins. I thought it could be too long, though.

Of course you can. :D


I don't understand, though. If the main game is decided by if only black or only white remain, what is to stop somebody from making bad or random moves to not get eliminated? Your chances seem pretty good if you don't get eliminated, because there may not be a tie.
Author:  Jordus [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mafia-style Go
if you end up with only black team members, or only white team members, then i guess the team who remains wins at that point. consider it win by resignation?
Author:  fwiffo [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mafia-style Go
If you make bad moves you might get voted off by your own team members.
Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mafia-style Go
People who make bad/random moves for white will be eliminated by the (EDIT: white) team, no? Your best bet might be to make medium good moves for both sides...
Author:  Phelan [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mafia-style Go
So, how many people are interested? We could start with a 9x9 or a 13x13 to be faster.
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