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Offline wilswan
 Post subject: Review please?
Post #1 Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:40 am 
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[admin] Moved to the game analysis subforum. -JB [/admin]

Hi, if anyone could give me some pointers I would really appreciate it.

This is a game I played recently on KGS. I felt like the opening was going pretty well, but I seemed to lose it in the middle game (admittedly I did make a couple of mistakes).

Perhaps the 3-3 invasion at B39 was a mistake?



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Offline EdLee
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Post #2 Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:28 am 
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Hi wilswan,

:w8: After this, probably a good idea to look at a few of the most basic continuations of the joseki. Not a must; but if you enjoy it, it's nice.

:b9: For example, D4 is one continuation for this common shape (and W normally replies at E3; B takes 3-3 -- standard local sequence. )

:w12: E3. :)

:w16: Strange. Maybe jealous. Instead, approaching from any other wider sides seems quite reasonable.

:b17: .. :w20: Reasonable sequence for B.

:b23: Ah, this one. Letting W connect his 2 weak groups like this is soft on W, too easy on W. Trying to split W should be the first feeling; fighting spirit.
Example: B15.

:w28: Mistake. W already got away with murder here because of :b23: ,
and B voluntarily ended in gote. W is happy to tenuki.
Later, W has B18 clamp as follow-up. This move kills that option for W.

:b31: Feels slow. Tenuki. Example: R6.

:b39: Peaceful choice. OK. If you're worried about the bottom, you can consider O4 -- some variations.

:b47: Follow-itis ( term stolen from Bill. )
Questions to ask:
Your D17 group settled ?
Yes.
W's L17 group settled ?
Yes.
Many or most of the top stones "low" (3rd line) ?
Yes.
Any big gains or losses (big stakes) on top ?
No.
W just ignored :b45: ?
Yes.
Even without a rough count, where's W's biggest potential ?
Bottom.
:b49: This area is neutral ( or, should be, unless you force W to make it cash. )
Still the same questions as :b47: .

:b57: - :w58: This exchange could be bad for B.
( See questions at :b47: .)
You probably have to do something about the bottom.
Not sure what's the best sequence there;
however, to consider M3, we see that W has some weakness around O4.
We also need to know W Q2 isn't sente against your LR corner --
because B still has an emergency attach S8 --
W cannot hane S9; B cross-cuts R9 --
good to study this standard local shape.
W can only pull back to R9, so B can gain eye space with S9.
This is important because it makes W Q2 not sente to kill your corner.
But after your :b57: - :w58: exchange, you cut off your own exit.
Now W Q2 is sente to kill you, which makes any invasion near M3 more difficult.
:b59: Follow-itis. The bottom.

:b61: More than one fire now. Locally, o16 to break into W.
Globally, the bottom.

:b63: Follow-itis. Same notes as :b61: .

:w70: See :b57: - :w58: above.

:w78: T3 atari, then maybe :white: P9 or o8 to fix the shape.

:b89: Seems unreasonable/greedy. W already played too softly. J4.

:w90: J4.

:b91: J4.

:b93: H6.

:w94: K2. ( ... :b93: was bad. )

:black: 101 G1.
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Offline TegaiS
 Post subject: Re: Review please?
Post #3 Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:53 am 
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Learn how to stop a large monkey jump (White's 120) and you will become stronger by half a stone immediately.

I don't think B39 was a mistake but I think that White was better at this point already.

One general advice for this game is to play further from the strong groups (sometimes even as far as possible). It can be applied to Black moves 15 (better at the right side, for example R6), 31 (the same), 45--53, 69 (M3 looks more promising). It can be difficult to determine whether the group is strong or not but if you think that it is strong play away from it.
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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: Review please?
Post #4 Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:09 am 
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TegaiS wrote:
Learn how to stop a large monkey jump (White's 120) and you will become stronger by half a stone immediately.


Actually I think white's monkey jump is not legitimate as the group it is jumping from is not fully alive yet. If white insists on saving it isn't this a kill? First reduce the white eyespace in sente, note black doesn't need to defend the lower left territory for now as white can't make an eye by going that way.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . X O X . X . O . . O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O , . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . O X . . X . X O . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . X O O . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 7 O . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | 2 3 . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 5 4 X X . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | 1 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O . . . . . . . O X X X |
$$ | . . . X O O O . O . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X O . O O X O . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . O X X O O O O X . O X X X |
$$ | . . O O . O X . X X X O . O . O X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . X X X . X X O . . . O O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Then peep of 8 makes eyespace smaller and prevents connection out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm8
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . X O X . X . O . . O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | 3 O X X . X . X O , . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . O X . . X . X O . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | 4 . O O . X O O . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . 5 . 2 1 . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O . . . . . . . O X X X |
$$ | . . . X O O O . O . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X O . O O X O . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . O X X O O O O X . O X X X |
$$ | . . O O . O X . X X X O . O . O X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . X X X . X X O . . . O O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White can try falling back to eye point but doesn't help
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm8
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . X O X . X . O . . O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | 5 O X X . X . X O , . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . O X . . X . X O . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | 3 . O O . X O O . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . 2 . 4 1 . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O . . . . . . . O X X X |
$$ | . . . X O O O . O . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X O . O O X O . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . O X X O O O O X . O X X X |
$$ | . . O O . O X . X X X O . O . O X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . X X X . X X O . . . O O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

EDIT: Oops, didn't notice that black is short of liberties this way too when drawing diagrams:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm13 18 connects at 15
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 4 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | 3 X O X . X . O . . O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | X O X X . X . X O , . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | 2 O X . . X . X O . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | X 1 O O . X O O . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | 5 O . O X . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O . . . . . . . O X X X |
$$ | . . . X O O O . O . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X O . O O X O . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . O X X O O O O X . O X X X |
$$ | . . O O . O X . X X X O . O . O X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . X X X . X X O . . . O O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

END EDIT

However, white's 2 corner stones might save the day with tesuji of 9 (if black plays atari at 11 then white can make ko)? Note how getting the hane at 11 means the black a16 becomes a self-atari so can no longer connect to a14 peep. If you play a17 hane instead of a18 belly tesuji then black can block at a18 and maintains the threat of connection to a14.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm8
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 X O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | 4 X O X . X . O . . O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | 9 O X X . X . X O , . . . . O X . X . |
$$ | 0 O X . . X . X O . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | 7 . O O . X O O . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . 6 . 8 1 . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X . . . . . , . . . . . , X X . |
$$ | O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . X X O O . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X O . . . . . . . O X X X |
$$ | . . . X O O O . O . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X O . O O X O . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . O X X O O O O X . O X X X |
$$ | . . O O . O X . X X X O . O . O X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . X X X . X X O . . . O O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


In which case black could think about starting at a16 instead of e13. I didn't finish reading this but I should think black might be able to capture those 2 stones in exchange for letting white connect out with f12, which is a territorial gain for black. The moral of the story is don't just think about endgame because you opponent played an endgame move, think about life and death too. Learn to do this and become 5 stones stronger ;-) .

This post by Uberdude was liked by: Bill Spight
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Offline wilswan
 Post subject: Re: Review please?
Post #5 Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:36 am 
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Wow, thanks very much guys, I'll look through this and try to bear it in mind in future.
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Review please?
Post #6 Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:11 pm 
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Some comments. :)


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Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Offline Fedya
 Post subject: Re: Review please?
Post #7 Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:49 pm 
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Quote:
EDIT: Oops, didn't notice that black is short of liberties this way too when drawing diagrams:

No offense, but it's nice to see strong players miss things like this when reading. :razz:

(I know that's not a valid excuse for my own lousy reading.)
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