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 Post subject: 12kyu game, some questions
Post #1 Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:56 pm 
Dies in gote

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Can I ask for some directions on my playing in this game? I misjudged at least 2 cutting points and made a pre-peeped hole.

Greetings,
Jorden

Some questions:
white 6: right direction?
white 20: maybe it was better to react to black c10? c6? or c14?
white 22: is this the right direction? or better d17?
white 44: better to play elsewhere? but where is most important?
black's cut at 45 ends badly for me. Could i have captured? Maybe white 48 at h16 instead?
white 186: could i have killed the group in the corner?



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 Post subject: Re: 12kyu game, some questions
Post #2 Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:30 pm 
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I'm only a few stones stronger than you, so players stronger than I are welcome to correct any misinformation I've given you. Also, I only looked at your questions, I'm sure stronger players will say other moves have bigger problems.

:w6: I'd play R10, or maybe Q10.
:w22: I'd play on the other side, at D17, arguing that a wall in that direction works better with the stones on the right. Stronger players are welcome to correct this.
:w46: Capture Black with a net, not a ladder.
I don't see any way to kill the upper left.

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 Post subject: Re: 12kyu game, some questions
Post #3 Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:22 pm 
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To elaborate on the question of whether :w6: is the right direction, the problem with a move like that is that when black plays a move like :b7: it acts as a pincer AND an extension from the bottom right corner (though I probably would have placed :b7: slightly differently). Playing dual purpose moves is an important part of becoming a more efficient player, so you don't want to set up your opponent with an easy opportunity for this kind of move.

In addition to splitting like Fedya recommended, another option would be to approach from the other side around O17.

Edit: pay attention to mitsun, not me. :D


Last edited by jeromie on Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 12kyu game, some questions
Post #4 Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:22 pm 
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For :w6: the inside approach (R14) and the low splitting move (R10) are the most common moves in professional play. So your move was fine.

:w20: is a very conservative extension from the W thickness, really too small at this early stage of the game. Your suggestions (C6 and C14) would indeed be better. F3 would also be good.

:w22: blocked on the wrong side. You already have an extension in place at K16, so a wall facing that stone will make a nice territorial framework. In contrast, a wall facing the B stone at C10 will not be able to make much territory. However, if you blocked on the "wrong" side with the intention of attacking C10, then I withdraw my objection, go for it :)

:w30: absolutely must be used to patch the cutting points at C15 and E16. When B cuts, five white stones in that region lose all of their effectiveness. No single move elsewhere on the board can make up for this. The relevant proverb is "vital points before big points". All other mistakes in the game are small compared to this!

:w44: is terribly slow. Going back to the proverb, there are no weak groups to defend or attack, so now is the time for a big play. If your plan is to make territory on top, you could play somewhere around K12 to sketch out a large area. Securing the lower left corner with a single move at D3 or E3 would be quite large. Doing something to prevent B from making a huge territory in the lower right would also be good. Some ideas to consider around there: approach at G3, reduce from above around O5, invade at Q8 (aiming to attack the R8 stone), invade at R3 and attempt to live.

You could have captured :b45:, by making better use of your wall to the left. For example, atari a few times (F16,F15,F14,F13), then surround the B stones loosely in a "net". The B stones will only have two liberties, and all of the surrounding W stones will be stronger than that. Try playing out some possibilities on a board. Then try visualizing the result without actually playing the stones.

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 Post subject: Re: 12kyu game, some questions
Post #5 Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:44 pm 
Honinbo

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Some comments on the latest game.

:w12: Better to jump to O-15. The three Black stones are strong. No need to press against them.

:w18: Great result for White in the top right corner — until you connected with :w18:. Saving one stone is very small. Big clue: the empty triangle. Better to extend on the top side.

:w20: Not a bad move. My choice would be to extend on the bottom side to prevent a Black double wing formation.

:w22: Blocking at D-17 is much better, building a framework on the top side. C-16 builds a wall facing the Black stone, which hinders its development. If White had a strong attack against that stone, it might be worthwhile, but he doesn’t.

:w28: The solid connection at E-16 looks good. :) C-15 makes bad shape, an empty triangle.

:w30: Ditto.

:w32: E-16.

:w36: D-13 is better, threatening to cut off the C-10 stone and enlarging the White framework. Also, the White stones are stronger.

:b41: Good. White took gote and allowed Black to make a double wing.

:w42: Probably as good as anything now.

:w44: IMO, White needs to do something about the Black double wing formation. There are a number of possibilities. How about an invasion cum pincer at Q-08 or Q-07?

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Important: Avoid empty triangles.

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 Post subject: Re: 12kyu game, some questions
Post #6 Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:59 pm 
Dies in gote

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Fedya wrote:
:w46: Capture Black with a net, not a ladder.


(!) Forgot about those apparently... :salute:

And thank you mitsun, Bill Spight and jeromie for taking the time to look at my questions. The answers were really helpful.

Jorden

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