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Author:

xoxo88 [ Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:30 pm ]

Post subject:

tournement game, where are my mistakes?

hey guys, normally ill try to get my reviews live but it was the last game of the tournement so unfortunately it wasnt possible to get a deeper analysis at time. but i hope some of you are capable enough to explain me Whites mistakes here. ive got the feeling that after the opening black never gives away his lead but i cant point out where White could have had a chance to turn the game and what was the opening mistake which led to the Blacks leading at all? ty for all answers!

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turnier bremen 5 partie.sgf [1016 Bytes]
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Author:	Loons [ Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: tournement game, where are my mistakes?
What strikes me is that despite white never follows up against black's stones. Perhaps white can afford to play as a jump, and then settle top left against black's group on the left.

Author:	quantumf [ Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: tournement game, where are my mistakes?
I'm not crazy about 16, it's approaching a strong group, and is clearly gote. The O17 situation is more urgent. Not sure what the right move is, probably one of K16 or R17. The situation after black plays P17 is terrible - not sure what is worse, the white empty triangle or the massive black wall.

Author:	Knotwilg [ Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: tournement game, where are my mistakes?
I don't know enough about the opening, let alone be able to correct a Tygem 5d, so I'll take this as an exercise. Since the two previous voices contested let's start there. Locally it's urgent but globally the top is more urgent. So how to come out of the top in sente? Would invading at 3-3 in the top right be a good idea? Black's wall woudl face a stable White group and there would be scope for taking sente. The situation is already challenging, so how about the earlier moves? : is the bottom really more important at this stage than top or right? Black doesn't seem impressed by the two low stones and proceeds to play elsewhere. Or perhaps a bit later: Why reinforce this side? If Black plays there, White can play B17 and the left side becomes problematic for Black. This would make more sense of . So, jumping out with the two weak stones at N14 with is perhaps more consistent with the overall position?

Author:	Uberdude [ Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: tournement game, where are my mistakes?
Opening mistakes (? means maybe not such a mistake but I don't like): flat, small, not important/urgent. k4 or l4 would be better in this area, but helping o17 is urgent. ? flat, inefficient with o17. left side is bigger than corner. On top k16 would help both groups. ? o17 urgent. o17 urgent.

Author: Joaz Banbeck [ Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:15 pm ]

Post subject: Re: tournement game, where are my mistakes?

I agree with the comments about 16. It should have been up top, maybe K16.

But before that, I didn't feel comfortable with move 8:

In the lower right, black's stones at P3 and R9 look disfunctional. He can't work efficiently from that along the lower side. So why is the lower side important to you?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But he has much better shape in the upper right. He can pincer you.
So I like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . W . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . x . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:	xoxo88 [ Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: tournement game, where are my mistakes?
i kinda agree with the most said. the thing about 16 is not that white expected sente here but i think if b plays there first its a direct threat to enter the corner on the hard way. still i guess the top is more important. about 8: i really dont like this opening variation since i dont see any nice way for white to enter the right bottom corner now without giving b nice walls to any side. so i think playing at the bottom is actually not as bad as it looks on the first hand. Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cWm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . . . . W . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . O . . 1 . . . . . . . X . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] but uberdude might be right. k4 or l4 do some more pressure on the corner

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