Life In 19x19 :: Playing go after a break of few years, need advice

I would say p4 instead of :w26:

but I am not skilled enough to read everything after (the goal would be to cut in r4 after).

Well then I would say R3 but I'm not sure if I can live if black connect.

S6 with the cut in r4 if white tenuki ? Is not it yose ?

Ok I found Black p4, white q3

I just inverted black and white, so it would be white p4, black q3...

Then

p3 and all the results are good for white.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . O O . . | $$ . . . . . O X X . | $$ . . . X 1 X 3 5 . | $$ . . . . 2 4 . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . | $$ ------------------[/go]

tekesta : Thanks for your comment, but did you see I was white and not black in game 1 ? It seems to me that your comment is more about my opponent mistakes. As for watching pro games, is there some "classic" games everyone should see ?

Author:	lapos [ Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:58 am ]
Post subject:	Playing go after a break of few years, need advice
Hi everyone, I played go few years ago and I decided to play it again now that I have more time to do it. When I stopped I was 5k and I am now 6k? in kgs so I did not lose to much but I would like to know what I should study to improve my game. Indeed, it's really difficult to know by myself what are the kind of mistakes I do. I give you two games I played these last days, one against a 7kyu and one against a 10kyu (with 4 handicaps). Even if I won both of them I know I made a lot of mistakes. Could you please tell me what are the kind of mistakes I do the most (to know what I should study now). Thanks a lot !

Author:	tekesta [ Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing go after a break of few years, need advice
You did not play well. Rather, your opponents played badly. Comments on the 1st game: invading corner @ c17 too early; only allows White to develop strong outer wall for influence. Playing this move at k4 is best if Black wants to play for influence; strong sanrensei formation. Otherwise, p17, d10, k17 are good points to play. Better played @ r10. What did Black have in mind when playing this move at tengen? This is why Black had to play @ r10. After White has a big moyo on the right side. This needs to be reduced. With this move White stands to get lots of territory on the right side. Playing @ l17 is no good, since friendly forces are too far away to make this move effective. Better to take gote and play @ c3. Slow, but it will fortify the position on the bottom left. A better point may be k12 or p11 to begin reducing White's big moyo. Attaching to only strengthens White in bottom left side. Play @ f9 is better to keep White invading stone isolated abd vulnerable to attack by Black. In the 4-stone handi game, Black just didn't know how to play a game that takes full advantage of the handicap. For example, Black could've played @ k16 and d10 right away to increase influence. Also, Black got into a fight real early. Not a smart thing to do when playing Black with handicap; it helps White to settle her positions. I could point out more mistakes, but it's late at night where I am and, after all, you asked on what areas in your baduk need improvement. Well, I cannot say just where you are weakest, but I can say that replaying pro games on a daily basis will prove useful in that regard. I cannot guarantee that your bad habits will disappear overnight, but you will develop an instinct for good play and your bad habits will fade away. (And let's not forget our puzzles!) Just keep in mind that baduk is about progress, not success.　So... look forward to a long period of constant practice and refinement.

Author:	EdLee [ Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:
Hi lapos, welcome back. Game 1. Not sure about this move. If simply jumps to F10, how do you feel about this exchange. can you find another local (lower right corner) move ?

Author:	lapos [ Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing go after a break of few years, need advice
tekesta : Thanks for your comment, but did you see I was white and not black in game 1 ? It seems to me that your comment is more about my opponent mistakes. As for watching pro games, is there some "classic" games everyone should see ? EdLee : Is it not the common way to use the wall I developped ? If not black would play something like d13 no ? If I play and black play d13 is it not a waste of my potential ? I would say p4 instead of but I am not skilled enough to read everything after (the goal would be to cut in r4 after). Ps: Because EdLee seems to edit his post I will do the same to not pollute the thread.

Author:	EdLee [ Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:11 am ]
Post subject:
Hi lapos, if you want to do something with your stones, why not on ? Instead of later. For example, instead of , B could have played on the left side -- like -- to neutralize your stones.

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Author:	EdLee [ Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing go after a break of few years, need advice
lapos wrote: I would say p4 instead of but I am not skilled enough to read everything after (the goal would be to cut in r4 after). I was referring to , not .

Author:	lapos [ Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing go after a break of few years, need advice
Well then I would say R3 but I'm not sure if I can live if black connect.

Author:	EdLee [ Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:46 am ]
Post subject:
lapos wrote: Well then I would say R3 but I'm not sure if I can live if black connect. Did you consider any other local moves ?

Author:	lapos [ Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing go after a break of few years, need advice
S6 with the cut in r4 if white tenuki ? Is not it yose ?

Author:	EdLee [ Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:11 am ]
Post subject:
lapos wrote: S6 with the cut in r4 if white tenuki ? Is not it yose ? So you're getting close -- keep trying. You seem to be guessing. Instead, find a sequence that's definitely good for W, locally.

Author:	lapos [ Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing go after a break of few years, need advice
Ok I found Black p4, white q3 (because if not black atari in r4 and kill the stones) then black p3 and every variation I made was good for white at the end. Was it this move ?

Author:	EdLee [ Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:
lapos wrote: Ok I found Black p4, white q3 It's W's turn on , not B's.

Author:	lapos [ Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing go after a break of few years, need advice
I just inverted black and white, so it would be white p4, black q3 (because if not white atari in r4 and kills the stones) then white p3 and the result is good for white.

Author:	EdLee [ Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:
lapos wrote: I just inverted black and white, so it would be white p4, black q3... So, wedges P4, and then ?

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Author:	lapos [ Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing go after a break of few years, need advice
Then p3 and all the results are good for white.

Author:	EdLee [ Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:41 am ]
Post subject:
lapos wrote: Then p3 and all the results are good for white. Things get way off very quickly without a diagram. Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc $$ . . . . . . . . . \| $$ . . . . . . . . . \| $$ . . . . . . . . . \| $$ . . . . . O O . . \| $$ . . . . . O X X . \| $$ . . . X 1 X . . . \| $$ . . . . 2 . . . . \| $$ . . . . . . . . . \| $$ . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ------------------[/go]` If wedges, ataris. And then ? ( Black would not play your suggested Q3 for . )

Author:	lapos [ Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing go after a break of few years, need advice
Well, if black do not play q3 I think this sequence will appear : Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc $$ . . . . . . . . . \| $$ . . . . . . . . . \| $$ . . . . . . . . . \| $$ . . . . . O O . . \| $$ . . . . . O X X . \| $$ . . . X 1 X 3 5 . \| $$ . . . . 2 4 . . . \| $$ . . . . . . . . . \| $$ . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ------------------[/go]`

Author:	EdLee [ Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:56 am ]
Post subject:
lapos wrote: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$W $$ . . . . . . . . . \| $$ . . . . . . . . . \| $$ . . . . . . . . . \| $$ . . . . . O O . . \| $$ . . . . . O X X . \| $$ . . . X 1 X 3 5 . \| $$ . . . . 2 4 . . . \| $$ . . . . . . . . . \| $$ . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ------------------[/go]` Can you find a better move than your ?

Author:	tekesta [ Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing go after a break of few years, need advice
lapos wrote: tekesta : Thanks for your comment, but did you see I was white and not black in game 1 ? It seems to me that your comment is more about my opponent mistakes. As for watching pro games, is there some "classic" games everyone should see ? At first I did not realize that you were playing White. You punished most of your opponent's mistakes, so initially I did not find anything wrong with the way you were playing. Rather, your opponents made several gross mistakes during play. As you may already know, even if you made mistakes, your opponent would probably not have recognized them as such, let alone be able to punish them. What EdLee said on of your first game is reasonable. Although the actual seems like a logical move, jumping to f10 is the usual response for the opponent; this helps Black expand his moyo. However, Black made contact with that White stone and that worked to your advantage. @ r10 seems more logical to me, since even after it is still possible to invade the Black moyo or at least reduce it. Generally, when you opponent sets up a large moyo, you should do the same, which is why I recommended r10. is not aggressive enough. If this move were played @ o3, the impact would be more severe; in handicap games, White attempts to disrupt Black's influence across the board. @ m3, then White jumps out to o5. A few moves later White can play k7 for some more damage. As for "classic" games, you can choose whichever pro player you like and replay his/her game records. However, historical players such as Honinbos Shusaku and Dosaku are often recommended for beginners and amateurs in general. Shusaku, especially, since he took Black in many of his games and he is considered to be the gold standard in Go, at least among Japanese pros. (Go Seigen once replayed a collection of Shusaku's games and so did Kobayashi Koichi.) You do have some experience with the game, so I would not call you a beginner, but I still believe that you can benefit from replaying pro game records. In fact, a stronger player can derive more benefit from doing so than a beginner; the stronger player would be able to analyze local and whole-board positions more deeply. If it interests you, Ruoshi Sun has published an English translation of Four-stone Games by Guo Bailing, in 2 volumes. If you are taking Black in a a game with fixed placement handicap stones, this book can give you some insight into how to use a 3,4, or 5 stone handicap.

Author:	Loons [ Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Playing go after a break of few years, need advice
I would like to emphasize that in game one, black's strategy to was unambiguously bad. belonged at C6 : It was an approach\|extension from thickness. Black owes a move top left so white is even thicker there than one might have thought. Relatedly, I would argue still belongs at C6 (the standard move in that situation) though your random enclosure would suggest a play on the right for both players too, so maybe it's a 50-50 ball here.