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i panic in the opening
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11182		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  PrimaTaZ [ Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  i panic in the opening
i need a higher level player to confirm or refute my opinion please. i looked over the game and wasnt happy with my O14. i wish i played Q6. but i felt jealous about that top corner of the board and wanted to get in there and do something about it. that structure isnt something ive dealt with before, large knight extension on both sides. if he gets one more move, lets say N13, do those 5 stones really secure the top quarter of the board? or are there still potential weak points i can get in?

http://eidogo.com/#4kmyatdHX

Attachments:
PrimaTaZ-Mimoso-2014-12-10.sgf [755 Bytes]
Downloaded 314 times
Author:  S2W [ Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: i panic in the opening
Q6 definitely over O14

Here are some other ideas (did the game really end at move 88 -or did I not download it properly?)
Author:  Bill Spight [ Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: i panic in the opening
PrimaTaZ wrote:
i need a higher level player to confirm or refute my opinion please. i looked over the game and wasnt happy with my O14. i wish i played Q6. but i felt jealous about that top corner of the board and wanted to get in there and do something about it.


Such feelings are a well known problem with playing go. Go is an exchange. The opponent gets something. You just want it to be less than you get. 1 point or 0.5 point with komi is enough to win.

Another idea is the one space jump to P-10. :)
Author:  EdLee [ Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:13 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi Prima,

To follow up on Bill's comments, you didn't lose the game at o14.
Your bigger and biggest problems are elsewhere. :)

( This is also very common among many people: until we get reviews from much higher level people and they point out certain things to us, we very often don't realize which are actually our biggest problems. :) This process can take quite some time. )
Author:  Uberdude [ Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: i panic in the opening
PrimaTaZ wrote:
if he gets one more move, lets say N13, do those 5 stones really secure the top quarter of the board? or are there still potential weak points i can get in?


N13 secures an additional approximately 10 points in the o14 region, in gote. It doesn't make any weak group stronger, or aim at any follow-up. In other words it is a medium-sized endgame move. You would still have a slide at s13 which is probably bigger (black r12 is probably bigger than n13 as it protects side not centre territory, and weakens r10 and aims at r12 invasion, but r12 is also too slow). You should be overjoyed if your opponent played n13, it is slow and inefficient. Look at the board if you play p10 for 24, he plays n13, and you play q6: you get far more potential on the lower and right side than he does. Note I say potential as that area is not territory yet and black can easily make 1 live invasion group in there, but two would be harder so most of that much larger area would become your points.
Author:  moyoaji [ Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: i panic in the opening
To build on what Uberdude said, you should think of the opening in terms of potential, not territory. Instead of thinking "How many points does this move get me?" you need to think "How many points does this move give me the potential to get?" It is the difference between reading one move ahead and reading several moves ahead.

I like to use the Chinese Opening to illustrate how potential can work in the opening. It is actually somewhat similar to the Sanrensei opening you choose in your game.



The lesson to learn from the Chinese Opening, and from many other openings, is that you should not be picky about where you get your points. So try to build potential in many places and then points will fall into place natural as you play out the rest of the game.

When it comes to the timing of invasion or reduction moves, look at the board and say: "Who has more potential?" If you do, then continue to build. If your opponent has more potential, then now is the time to challenge their claim.

Attachments:
ChineseOpeningExample.sgf [2.54 KiB]
Downloaded 477 times
Author:  Krama [ Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: i panic in the opening
moyoaji wrote:
To build on what Uberdude said, you should think of the opening in terms of potential, not territory. Instead of thinking "How many points does this move get me?" you need to think "How many points does this move give me the potential to get?" It is the difference between reading one move ahead and reading several moves ahead.

I like to use the Chinese Opening to illustrate how potential can work in the opening. It is actually somewhat similar to the Sanrensei opening you choose in your game.



The lesson to learn from the Chinese Opening, and from many other openings, is that you should not be picky about where you get your points. So try to build potential in many places and then points will fall into place natural as you play out the rest of the game.

When it comes to the timing of invasion or reduction moves, look at the board and say: "Who has more potential?" If you do, then continue to build. If your opponent has more potential, then now is the time to challenge their claim.



Interesting, any more material on other fuseki patterns? Nothing too complex and deep, this is enough to give beginners some material they should work on.
Author:  moyoaji [ Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: i panic in the opening
Krama wrote:
Interesting, any more material on other fuseki patterns? Nothing too complex and deep, this is enough to give beginners some material they should work on.


Sure, here is what I know about the Sanrensei and Orthodox. I don't know these openings with as much depth as I know the Chinese, but I understand the basics of them.



I also put them all together into one SGF attached below if you would like that for any reason.

Attachments:
OpeningExamples.sgf [6.97 KiB]
Downloaded 307 times
SanrenseiOrthodoxExamples.sgf [4.71 KiB]
Downloaded 396 times
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