Life In 19x19
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Two L19 players at OGS
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11329
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Author:  Aidoneus [ Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Two L19 players at OGS

I thought that I fell behind after White got 46 at K3, so I tried hard to apply recent lessons about probing moves. I'm pretty sure that White erred in letting my group escape in the lower right, though.

@Joellercoaster: Did you play 174 at O18 out of desperation? I felt that I should win by 10-12 points after killing that invasion.

Of course, not having studied the endgame (or knowing how to properly count), I made it closer. In particular, I did not respond to White's move 188 at B2 because I figured I would get sente to cut at both J4 and S14. Good or bad idea? (Bill keeps telling me to cut! And I read in Lessons in the Fundamentals, Kageyama say "Cut where you can cut. That is a simple principle and what is wrong with simple principles?" Especially for a simpleton like me!! :lol: )

Anyway, after getting a lead I just tried to keep it simple and eschewed tricky plays.



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Author:  joellercoaster [ Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Two L19 players at OGS

I fear W174 was kind of an aimless move... feeling like I'd let my lead slip away (also through inattention I felt at the time), my mind was wandering a bit. Maybe I had in my mind that you would hane on the other side and give me some free points :roll:

You did a good job of simplifying stuff and defending once you were ahead. I will take this lesson to heart in a game I'm playing at the moment :)

Author:  Uberdude [ Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Two L19 players at OGS

A few comments to get started with:

b5: A fine move, but you should make your subsequent moves work with it.
b7: How about a pincer to use tengen and try to provoke a fight, in the joseki to w10 you allow white to easily settle which makes tengen harder to use. If you took it off the board would you now play it?
w12: Probably low at o3 is simpler and better, here black can play m3 which makes a fight and tengen can be useful again.
w14: But here high is better! As you already gave c9 strong and low.
w18: Take the 3-3 to get more base and territory as black ought to block the top side to keep that potential.
w22: What is the purpose of this move? If you want to attack black's right group then first kick at r5 to both help your corner and reduce his eyespace. But the shape with r11 is not good.
b23: An interesting move, I don't know if it's good or bad! It allows white to connect at q10, but in a weak shape, and as a plus builds your top centre, and if white does connect then you can settle with s4 slide. Instead can split yourself at q10, or s4. s4 is very big because it both stengthens black and weakens white.
b25: Nice for the moyo, but white r5 will hurt.
w26: r5, l17 would be more normal place to invade here.
w28: complicated as black can cut. Are you happy to sacrifice m17 to munch f17?
b29: This attacks the group as a whole, but if you can't kill do you get enough? Can also think about k17. If white pulls back to h17 then k16 solid connect and if white g16 or f16 next you can either keep fighting, or just jump into c17 to keep most of your moyo and take the corner. White's crosscut though would be tricky...
w30: k17 would be simpler, this one requires a lot of reading
b31: ok, but what next...
b33: this is the first big kyu mistake. You help white get strong and kill your own k17 stone. One thing to consider is k18, but then h16 j15 h18 g17 and l17 captures. That's not a total disaster as you can get some nice forcing moves, but white lives in your moyo. You could ignore h18 atari to l16 ladder, but white is ok with g17 capture too. In fact you could play l16 atari and then l17 connect. to sacrifice some bits to the left to kill m17.
b35: I prefer one of the solid connections, but well done for connecting aiming at k18, rather than just playing h18 simple sente.
w36: h18 first to ask black if he wants to block (which means you need to defend at k18).
w38: big no no. Hurt yourself.
b41: nice! Better than f18 as can sneak into corner better later, and g19 atari doesn't help white much.
b45: Good, white lost a lot compared to just defending at k18 now, black got thick and damaged white's corner.
w46: Big, but r5 urgent.
b47: good!
w48: exciting
w50: giving black 3-3 in sente is generous, but it does keep his shape weak. I thought you might r8.
b51: Not good. s9 if it works is huge. Or r8 compromise. Fix that group first before embarking on new adventures.
b53: flailing indeed
w54: White has a chance for severe attack here: r4 s2 s2 s3 s5 r5 s6 cuts. Black can play r5 at s6 to keep connection but then the shape is very weak.

Author:  joellercoaster [ Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Two L19 players at OGS

Uberdude wrote:
w22: What is the purpose of this move? If you want to attack black's right group then first kick at r5 to both help your corner and reduce his eyespace. But the shape with r11 is not good.


It seems so obvious now :oops:

Thank you for this... much food for thought tonight.

Author:  Aidoneus [ Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Two L19 players at OGS

@Uberdude: Thank you for your comments. :D I have much to learn!

Author:  Bill Spight [ Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Two L19 players at OGS

Nice game, guys! A few comments. :)


Author:  Aidoneus [ Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Two L19 players at OGS

@Bill: Thank you for looking and commenting on our game!

BTW, I finally ventured out on some errands today. It has warmed up to about 6 F (windchill about -25 F) after much colder weather the last few days--and nights, I think that it got down to -11 F last night, with a wind chill I don't want to think about. Unfortunately, the lake effect snow (blizzard?) will come this afternoon/evening.

Author:  joellercoaster [ Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Two L19 players at OGS

Thanks Bill! That's a lot of interesting stuff to gnaw on - in particular, the stuff in the early game about finding ways to combine attack and defense (or avoid giving my opponent those opportunities) is something I see in books all over the place, think I'm doing... and yet to see it pointed out when I am completely missing it is gold.

We both missed some urgent points (probably me moreso), the bottom right just stares at me now.

As for "Good fighting spirit, but this does not work" I think that sums up my current struggles with fighting everywhere!

You mention taking my eye off the ball and losing the thread... that is also a good fit for what I feel a lot of the time. Much food for thought.

Thanks again for the really detailed feedback, I'm going to spend some time replaying the variations on a real board tonight and trying to set them in my mind.

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