Life In 19x19 :: 20k v 19k handicapped

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20k v 19k handicapped http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13558	Page 1 of 1

Author:	pocketMAD [ Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:	20k v 19k handicapped
White won by 10.5. I added my reasoning throughout the game. I don't play on a 19x19 board that often, but i'm training for an upcoming real-life tournament, so I was hoping if my strategies were adequate. Any thoughts are appreciated. Also, are there any sites online that help with managing byo-yomi? I usually play with Simple timing. This was 60 min with 5x30s, same as my upcoming tournament.

Author:	EdLee [ Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:
Hi pocket, This drop to the second line is strange feeling. Why is your eye drawn to there, when you can take Q5 ( 5-4 ) ? Right idea, but slow. Jump to Q14 ( or R14 ). Not good for W. Bad habit. Just connect at D18. Also bad habit. The exchange ( - ) helps W. Just extend to C15. Bad. Is there a cut at B17 ? No. Please confirm this to yourself. So is a wasted move. Just extend to C15. To get out is a good idea, but this shape isn't very good. Just take E5 ( 5-5 ). Bad shape. Wedge at C3 is better. Hane at G3 is even better. Big mistake by W. W needs to fix his shape at E3. Example: extend to G3. Your note here: Proverbs are a double-edged sword. Many beginners are greatly confused by them. Good, very big; punish W's mistake. Big mistake, big miss. You must push through; example: E2.

Author:	Knotwilg [ Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 20k v 19k handicapped
Don't get me wrong: Go is a hobby and you should do whatever you like. BUT, from an improvement perspective, I would now play on smaller boards to get more feedback on technique and tactics. The mere fact that at White just does not see the atari but still wins the game after the capture, is a sign that neither player has any idea what to do on a 19c19 board. We can give a lot of feedback on this game, but I think it would get lost in the overall lack of purpose. So 1. read more about the purpose of the game and basic strategy, like cut, connect, surround, escape 2. play on smaller boards for the time being, for faster feedback loops

Author:	pocketMAD [ Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re:
EdLee wrote: Hi pocket, This drop to the second line is strange feeling. Why is your eye drawn to there, when you can take Q5 ( 5-4 ) ? I'd say at the time, if I'd place Q5, he'd hane at Q2, or at least I would think that. I just didn't want him taking the corner. But seeing it now, I think placing at Q5 would give me more territory. I don't know how to count unfortunately, but would placing Q2 give me 3 points? Right idea, but slow. Jump to Q14 ( or R14 ). Quote: Not good for W. Because it gives him a cut, right? Bad habit. Just connect at D18. Also bad habit. The exchange ( - ) helps W. Just extend to C15. For move 26, would placing at C4 be better than E4? Seems so to me.

Author:	EdLee [ Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:
Hi pocket, Quote: if I'd place Q5, he'd hane at Q2 ... I just didn't want him taking the corner. Good that you had a reason for your . If W hanes at Q2, what's your reply ? B block-hanes at R2. Can W take the corner ? No. Confirm for yourself.

Author:	EdLee [ Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:
Hi pocket, Not good for W. Quote: Because it gives him a cut, right? Is there a cut at D18 ? No, no cut there. Confirm for yourself. This second line is bad for similar ( but different ) reasons as . Joseki: hane at the head of B -- in front of B, not behind B: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$W $$ ------------- $$ \| . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . $$ \| . . X O . . $$ \| . . X O . . $$ \| . . 1 . . . $$ \| . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . .[/go]` Joseki: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$W $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . $$ \| . . 8 6 7 . . $$ \| . . X O . 9 . $$ \| . . X O . . . $$ \| . 2 1 . . . . $$ \| . 4 3 . . . . $$ \| . . 5 . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . .[/go]`

Author:	EdLee [ Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:
Hi pocket, Your notes at are a good teaching moment. - Quote: This stone had 3 purposes, or so I thought.. 1.) To help connect the A and B groups (although, that kinda failed) 2.) Break apart white's two lower and upper groups. (squares) 3.) Connect my two right corner groups to the my C group (this also failed) Some (perhaps many) people tell beginners: - to "connect their stones" (stay connected); and - to "separate enemy stones". Mr. Kageyama gave this advice in his book. What they fail to mention (from what I've seen, including in Mr. Kageyama's paragraph) is why on earth would you do that ? The missing caveat: Is the connection important ? If yes, consider it. ( Maybe there's an even better option than to connect your stones! ) If no, maybe you don't need to connect. ( Double check. ) If the connection serves no purpose or is bad for you, why connect ?! The same is true for cutting enemy stones; for emphasis, here it is, again: Is cutting your enemy important ? If yes, consider it. ( Anything better ? ) If no... Double check. If the cut serves no purpose or is bad for you, why cut ?! For every move, sequence, or plan, go through the same check list. What they don't tell beginners is these guidelines are only training wheels. Because beginners (especially adults) want something, anything, to use as guidelines. The real, but unexplained and unspoken, reason for these guidelines -- stay connected & cut your enemy -- is for beginners to experiment and to gain valuable experience. And yes, it's very difficult for beginners to answer the questions above. Quite a substantial amount of experience and knowledge is required. ( Which beginners lack, for now; thus Catch-22. ) So, people just give the shortcuts: stay connected, cut your enemy. About your three reasons for : Good you had 3 reasons for . However... (1) Both your top and bottom right corners are strong -- no reason to connect them ; (2) W's 2 groups are already separated, so far apart, you don't need to do anything to split them ! (3) Your E3 group is a bit heavy ( because of inefficient previous moves, like ), but it has lots of room in the open; to try to connect it to your friendly groups is not a good plan. All the while, both B and W completely miss the huge problem at E3. A very good example why proverbs (guidelines) are very slippery (traps); they (can sometimes) distract you from the really big stuff (E3 problem is huge ).

Author:	EdLee [ Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:
Hi pocket, Your notes here: no, not P14. The turn at P11 is big. Good.

Author:	pocketMAD [ Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re:
Edlee, I just want to thank you for all the help you're giving me. Quote: What they fail to mention (from what I've seen, including in Mr. Kageyama's paragraph) is why on earth would you do that ? I'm unfortunately a product of that proverbial mentality. I mean, proverbs are proverbs for a reason though, so I follow them because I feel there's a greater probability of success if I blindly follow them rather than blindly following my own feelings. Regardless, I actually had a reason for doing this! I once had a game where I got a great deal of the board, but my opponent conquered the upper left, mid, and right sections, and it scored him tons of points, enough to win. I just feel controlling an entire side, the two corners included, of the board sneakily gives you the win. Any thoughts?

Author:	EdLee [ Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:
You're welcome. Quote: Any thoughts? Yes. Baby steps.

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