Life In 19x19
http://www.lifein19x19.com/

20 kyu game. Self reviewed but looking for extra insights
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15467		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Ian Butler [ Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:07 am ]
Post subject:  20 kyu game. Self reviewed but looking for extra insights
This is the game I played earlier today. In the file, I have done some self-reviewing. But I'm also looking for other/stronger players to provide additional insights and give me some pointers on several situations.
Thanks in advance for your time and effort, much appreciated!
Author:  BlindGroup [ Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 20 kyu game. Self reviewed but looking for extra insight
Overall, I think you played well.

Here are some general thoughts:

1. You did a good job of pushing into your opponents territory in the middle game.

2. You also did a nice job at the end of taking advantage of your opponent's mistakes to live in the top left area late in the game.

3. That said, you need to think about when it is better to push into and area and when it is better to invade. In your game, I think you should have invaded much earlier than you did.

4. I think you are undervaluing the importance of playing towards the center when one has attached stones on the 4th or 5th lines. Examples of when you should have pushed towards the center are moves 11-15 and 25.

Here are some more detailed thoughts:


Attachments:
2018-02-24 Ian Butler.sgf [8.23 KiB]
Downloaded 665 times
Author:  Ian Butler [ Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 20 kyu game. Self reviewed but looking for extra insight
BlindGroup wrote:
Overall, I think you played well.

Here are some general thoughts:

1. You did a good job of pushing into your opponents territory in the middle game.

2. You also did a nice job at the end of taking advantage of your opponent's mistakes to live in the top left area late in the game.

3. That said, you need to think about when it is better to push into and area and when it is better to invade. In your game, I think you should have invaded much earlier than you did.

4. I think you are undervaluing the importance of playing towards the center when one has attached stones on the 4th or 5th lines. Examples of when you should have pushed towards the center are moves 11-15 and 25.


Thanks so much for your constructive criticism, it's very helpful!
Particularly your comments about invasion & pushing to the middle are very interesting. When I analyse my play from last few weeks, I usually go around and push a lot from a strong group, but leave the invasions for when it's too late and the opponent has too many friends nearby. I should indeed invade earlier, before it becomes impossible.

Concerning the pushing out, it's something I'll have to work on. I'm a rather territorial player, because I've had some big losses when I tried to focus on the middle. I feel more comfortable on the sides of the board. Still, I'll have to learn to play the middle, I guess, because most games where I lose, it is indeed because my opponent has more points, mainly in the middle.

Thanks once again for your help!
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 20 kyu game. Self reviewed but looking for extra insight
Overall you are playing a bit too conservatively. You seem to be so focused on not making mistakes that you miss the big opportunities.
Often the biggest move is one that has just barely enough strength to win the resulting fight, and is one space short of an overplay. You are not making any overplays.

Comments go up to move 20.





Can anyone tell me where my .sgf went wrong?
Author:  Ian Butler [ Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 20 kyu game. Self reviewed but looking for extra insight
I've taken a look at the sgf file but I can't see what's wrong with it. Really hope someone can help out because I'd love to hear your thoughts on my game!
Author:  columbo [ Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 20 kyu game. Self reviewed but looking for extra insight
Some general thoughts:

1) At your level, and I hope you hear this as encouragement rather than discouragement, but don't think too too hard about big picture strategic concerns and the opening, unless the abstractions are something you really enjoy (motivating you to play more go). That's not to say you should play mindlessly or ignore considerations like "what part of the board matters right now?" but far more important is to gain a more seasoned, intuitive grasp on what a normal development of stones looks like.

So here, already at move 8 (opponent's move, not yours) we're in a strange foreign land. (FWIW white's move at D10 at move 6 is also a little questionable but a lot more reasonable than what follows). But as weird as this move is, it's the way the stones develop afterwards (or for any of these other nearby/contact plays, after you've got your basic positions staked out) that is really strikingly different about this game than one you'll be playing in the near future as you improve.

2) Concretely, the way you and your opponent develop your stones involves a lot of wall/line sequences where you're pretty much just playing stones next to each other, sometimes without any clear meaning, sometimes in a provably bad manner. Not your move, again, but take a look at move 38. I know that something feels natural about connecting an atari'd stone, and your comments indicate that you think you could push through this. Well, take a closer look. What if he plays at M12 or M13 (e.g.) instead? Can you see it/feel it? You can't just push through this if the stones develop differently. Yes, you'll get to cut the O13 and L14 groups from each other, by making a super weak and attackable "group" of a couple of stones in your opponent's thick area. Bad, so you shouldn't do it. ("It" being try to push here--even though it worked beautifully for you here. But that's due to your opponent).

3) As others have said in the past, practice reading just a single move or two in advance before playing a move that "feels" right. This isn't the secret key to getting better or anything--your "feeling" will improve with time and practice, it just will. But playing mindless moves happens to almost all of us at any level (it's just that what you play mindlessly will gradually improve). It's still good go at any level to be deliberate about moves with the vocabulary you have. With that in mind: look again at moves 119 and 121. You found a nice move at 117 in response to his descend at 116. A delicious kill made even more delicious by the fact that he gave up sente to make an unnecessary connection. Look at 119 now. Is this necessary? Can you practice 2-move reading and see that it's not? And then again at 121 you answer a move that needn't be answered. Think about how much freedom you're giving up on a sequence that, I'm confident, you can find yourself. By being just a little more deliberate you'll probably gain several stones of strength in no time, truly.

4) You seem to devote some attention in your comments to things like whether you could've actually killed his center group (starting at 125) and whether you should've been able to live on the left side. That you lived on the left side is a miracle (and again, especially after the area closes in by about move 160, due to him mistakenly thinking he needs to play RIGHT by each of your stones at all times instead of keeping just a little distance), and that you think the center group could be attacked by just throwing a stone randomly in there tells me you're not really sure what you're looking at when you see a big mass of stones. This is totally normal, and, fortunately, trainable. I'd recommend you supplement playing with a heavy dose of go problems, as many as you can stand. You'll gain strength at an incredible rate.

On the whole, it looked to my eyes like you're the better of the two players in this match. You have some good instincts about shape for your level (which is a great sign that you're about to experience huge gains in skill). You need to rid yourself of the idea that you need to play as if each move means the area within a 4 stone radius is the most important area of the board. This will help you I think become less conservative and inclined to follow your opponent's (often very bad) moves around, too. Keep it up!
Author:  Ian Butler [ Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 20 kyu game. Self reviewed but looking for extra insight
Thanks a lot, Columbo.
Yes, I definitely see that as encouragement. However big picture strategies are among my favorite things in Go, but I shouldn't focus too hard on them at this level, you are right.
I'm glad to see your criticism aligns with what others have already told me. It really gives me a clear picture of how to improve my play and what (not) to do.
Reading is a challenge. Weird thing is: I can actually read okay-ish (like 4-5 moves ahead atm), but during a game I often play as if I'm playing blitz. Even when I have the time, I play too much on instinct. I really have to sit down and force myself to think things through. I'll have to do that and I'm working on that, now.

You also pinpoint that maybe I don't see life and death as clearly, and that's definitely true. The life and death of groups is perhaps the hardest thing in the game for me and I often lose groups that I thought were safe. I'm trying to do 30 minutes of tsumego at least 3 times a week, I hope that'll help me.

Thanks again, I really appreciate your help!
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 20 kyu game. Self reviewed but looking for extra insight
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
Overall you are playing a bit too conservatively. You seem to be so focused on not making mistakes that you miss the big opportunities.
Often the biggest move is one that has just barely enough strength to win the resulting fight, and is one space short of an overplay. You are not making any overplays.

Comments go up to move 20.





Can anyone tell me where my .sgf went wrong?


Removed "PC[OGS: http://online-go.com/game/11798560]" from Joaz's file.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 20 kyu game. Self reviewed but looking for extra insight
Top of the head comments. :)

:b9: Wrong side. There is more room towards the left.

:b11: Stand at L-15.

:b15: Agree with JB. Too close to strength.

:b19: Non-urgent. The bottom side is big.

:b21: Stand at Q-08.

:b25: Hane at P-13.

:w30: Note that without :w26: this would not be atari.
Author:  Ian Butler [ Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 20 kyu game. Self reviewed but looking for extra insight
Thanks both for your help.

I think it says a lot that I wouldn't play this game again.
The remarks have been very helpful and (best of all) I understand them, looking at the game now.

That I'll never make the same mistakes again, I won't say, because probably I will. But my brain will protest more loudly now and one day it might control my hands :D
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/