I'm playing white and thought the corner was fairly settled. It was early in the game and I tenuki-ed to a strategic spot elsewhere. I just wasn't paying enough attention. A few moves later, my opponent (black) made the shape-stealing inside move at R18. I groaned and figured my entire group was now dead and the corner was his (about a 20 point flip). Its a friendly game played across a table and we spent some time seeing if there was a way to save my stones. We could not. I let the corner go and moved on..and lost by about 20 points!

Is this group dead? If not, what are the steps for life?

THanks!

--Jeff

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c Alive or Dead?
$$ ------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X O . Y . . |
$$ . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ . . . . X X O O . . |
$$ . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ . X . . . X X X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Hi Jeff,

Hi Jeff,

Do you remember the sequence that led to the game shape ?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$
$$ -------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . X O . . . . |
$$ . . . X O . . . . |
$$ . . . X X O O . . |
$$ . . . B W O . . . |
$$ X . . a B X X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X . O . . |[/go]

Whatever happened around the ( - - ) exchange, but didn't cut at (a)...

Compare:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$
$$ -------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . X O . . . . |
$$ . . . X O . . . . |
$$ . . . X X O O . . |
$$ . . . X x O . . . |
$$ X . . . X X X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X . O . . |[/go]

W could use that extra (x) liberty...

My initial reaction is to not waste time trying to defend those two ugly stones at P17/P18, and escape with the rest of the group while he captures the two stones. The goal is to create options of S14 and S18.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c
$$ ------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X O . X C . |
$$ . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ . . . . X X O O W . |
$$ . . . . X O O . . . |
$$ . X . . . X X X C . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

I don't have time this morning to read it out, but I thought that it should be considered as a possible third option between completely dead and completely alive.

_________________
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207

Thanks for the ideas. We looked at the possibility of sacrificing the 2 P stones and trying to escape with the other 4 down the side but didn't see a way to make it work. Black moves to S14 and/or T14 cuts off that avenue of escape.

I guess this highlights the importance of preventing "shape-stealing" moves and making a critical defensive play that might be gote but secures an important area. Painful lesson.

--Jeff

After playing with it a while, I've come to the conclusion that the other four stones are ugly too. I can't find anything better than Ed's approach ko.

_________________
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207