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 Post subject: 7k OGS game review requested - lots of fighting
Post #1 Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:50 pm 
Dies with sente

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I've made some comments on what my thought were during the game. Overall I had so many weaknesses and a couple major misreads that really cost me. Please let me know what I'm missing and what I should be focusing on. I got lucky in game (literal luck), but I'd like to avoid disadvantageous fights in the future. Thanks!



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 Post subject: Re: 7k OGS game review requested - lots of fighting
Post #2 Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:20 pm 
Tengen
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some thoughts :)


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 Post subject: Re: 7k OGS game review requested - lots of fighting
Post #3 Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:32 pm 
Dies with sente

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Thanks for the comments! It sure is hard to want the right things...

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 Post subject: Re: 7k OGS game review requested - lots of fighting
Post #4 Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:11 am 
Tengen
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At move 19, you can tenuki. There are no empty corners, so you have a handful of choices: two possible approaches to a 4-4 stone, several possible shimaris in the upper right, and one or two shimaris in the lower right.

We can quickly dismiss either of the high shimaris in the lower right. A play at either 'a' invites an approach at the corresponding 'b'.
Either 'c' makes a shimari, and inhibits his extension off of the lower left. ( I tend to prefer the tighter one because of his strength on the lower side )
Either 'd' or 'e' makes a shimari, but still leaves white a dual-purpose approach around 'c'.
Both 'f' and 'g' are approaches to a 4-4, which Yilun Yang reminds us in his 'Fundamentals', is not as big as a shimari/approach of a 3-4.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Position at move 19
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . f . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d e . . |
$$ | . . g . . . . . . . . . . . . d e . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . , . . . a a , X . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . O . . . b b c c . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


In summary, I would have played this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Position at move 19
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . O . . . . . . B . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The two takeaways that I want you to get from this post are:
1) Approach or make shimari with a 3-4 before a 4-4.
2) Make dual-purpose moves.

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 Post subject: Re: 7k OGS game review requested - lots of fighting
Post #5 Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:33 am 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Position at move 53
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . X . a . X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . O . X b . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . , . . . . O , X X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . O . . O . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O c . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I agree with Topazg that the attack at 'a' is better than 'b'. But prior to either of those, I would play the dual-sente at 'c'.

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 Post subject: Re: 7k OGS game review requested - lots of fighting
Post #6 Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:29 am 
Tengen
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Yeah, that position got super awkward. I'm not sure if either player wants to really respond though?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Position at move 53
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . 6 . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . X O . 2 4 5 . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . , . . . . O , X X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . O . . O . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 O 1 . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Although settling his group is a big deal I can't imagine Black following up his :b1: here if White tenukis, it feels like Black's group should settle itself if he cuts White

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 Post subject: Re: 7k OGS game review requested - lots of fighting
Post #7 Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:54 am 
Tengen
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topazg wrote:
Yeah, that position got super awkward. I'm not sure if either player wants to really respond though?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Position at move 53
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . 6 . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . X O . 2 4 5 . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . , . . . . O , X X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . O . . O . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 O 1 . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Although settling his group is a big deal I can't imagine Black following up his :b1: here if White tenukis, it feels like Black's group should settle itself if he cuts White



If white tenukis, so does black. Black's right side group is safe, and his midddle group retains the threat of the N2 capture.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O O X X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . X O . 2 . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . , . . . . O , X X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . O . . O . X X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 7k OGS game review requested - lots of fighting
Post #8 Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:09 pm 
Tengen
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
If white tenukis, so does black. Black's right side group is safe, and his middle group retains the threat of the N2 capture.


Yes, this makes more sense to me, although he loses the ability to cut White in half (which I prefer to the N2 stone, although White's not fully alive in your line either).

Joaz Banbeck wrote:
But prior to either of those, I would play the dual-sente at 'c'


This is what I was finding confusing. Assuming that my interpretation was wrong, what did you mean by dual-sente?

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Post #9 Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:17 pm 
Honinbo
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Quote:
what did you mean by dual-sente?
Probably meant double-sente, but was it ?

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