It is currently Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:05 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Yet another request! Handicap game
Post #1 Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:04 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 615
Liked others: 54
Was liked: 108
The people on lifein19x19 have already helped me out tremendously with my Go. If it weren't for the good reviews, I wouldn't have made the progression I've made.
And so once again I hope some kind people will help me out here :bow: Though I'll have to make sure I don't presume on you too much, I feel like I ask for game reviews all the time. Still, nobody said it's too much so far :D

So this game was a bit of a strange one. I played a 2 kyu KGS with 2 stones handicap. (I am black) and I play an all right game, I feel. Leela has me at 90% win rate for a long time.

Forget the fact that I lost the game because - yes, you hear it correctly - I missed an atari. :oops: :oops: :oops:
When white played 217, I only read out that if he pulled out the M6 stone, I could connect and catch it in a ladder. So no trouble there, right. Unless you are like a 30 kyu and miss an atari. But there is nothing much to learn from that mistake. It's a blunder, for sure. And I don't even use the excuse that I wasn't concentrated anymore, I was mostly in a good concentration during the endgame. I must simply admit to NOT SEEING an atari, a most hideous crime that apparently never completely goes away and pops up from time to time.

However, the bigger problem is that Leela has me at a big advantage around move 94 (and before and after, but just to pick a point) Score estimator at that point has a 40 point win for black.
Without that blunder at the end, black leads by about 10 points. That still means white managed to win back 30(!) points.

So my question is more: what about my play leads my opponent to take back 30 moves? What are my biggest mistakes, generally, not specific moves (I know these more or less from Leela, like 108 is so small and gote)

Is it slow play, wrong/bad endgame calculations, sente/gote-related, is it bad aji with cutting points...?

Thank you!


Top
 Profile  
 
Online
 Post subject: Re: Yet another request! Handicap game
Post #2 Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:05 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 10202
Liked others: 3438
Was liked: 3290
Top of the head comments:

:b6: This kick gains nothing.

:b8: A matter of style, perhaps, but the top left corner looks a bit better.

:w29: Well done by Black. You navigated what were probably unfamiliar waters rather well and came out OK. See Waltheri for variations.

:b30: Too close to your own strength, I think. G-06 looks like a better attack, while enlarging the Black sphere of influence. But perhaps best is N-15, on the border of moyos.

:w45: Good play! Border of moyos.

:w67: Things worked out well in the top right quadrant, as well.

:b68: Too solid, I think. G-06 looks better, eh?

:b78: Too small. Isn’t it time to expand Black’s center moyo?

:b94: Looks small. How about P-18?

:b8: (Add 100). Quite small, no?

:w19: Threatens to go into Black’s corner.

:b30: The hane at Q-19 is technique.

:b44: Better to atari at Q-12 and sacrifice the one stone, eh?

:b62: What does this gain?

:b66: Ditto.

:b70: Sets up a double peep for White.

——————————————

In the endgame, missing P-18 was big, as was allowing G-01.

General flaw: playing too close to your own strength, thereby robbing it of its force.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

My two main guides in life:
My mother and my wife. :)

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Yet another request! Handicap game
Post #3 Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:21 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 615
Liked others: 54
Was liked: 108
Thank you, Bill.
Some answers/replies to your comments :)

Quote:
:b6: This kick gains nothing.

I thought the kick made white overconcentrated, while also protecting my corner (from invasion, not yet reduction). That is not so?

Quote:
:w29: Well done by Black. You navigated what were probably unfamiliar waters rather well and came out OK. See Waltheri for variations.

Thanks, I will! I was very happy that I came out of it okay, because midway I was afraid I was going to lose a lot here. But I started reading, while a few months or even weeks ago I would've played faster in "panic mode".

Quote:
:b30: The hane at Q-19 is technique.

Much better, indeed...

Quote:
:b44: Better to atari at Q-12 and sacrifice the one stone, eh?

Yes. Didn't read out the capture of the two stones, thought he was overplaying with the cut.

Quote:
:b70: Sets up a double peep for White.

I realized that one move later, so I went back and fixed :)

Thanks for your further pointers.

Quote:
General flaw: playing too close to your own strength, thereby robbing it of its force.

I think the hard part about this is also knowing what is strength, what isn't. Early on you give the example of :b30: being too close to my own strength, while for me it was a double purpose move of enlarging my base (because I didn't figure my group was strength) and undercutting white or limiting his eye space potentially.

Top
 Profile  
 
Online
 Post subject: Re: Yet another request! Handicap game
Post #4 Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:10 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 10202
Liked others: 3438
Was liked: 3290
Ian Butler wrote:
Thank you, Bill.
Some answers/replies to your comments :)

Quote:
:b6: This kick gains nothing.

I thought the kick made white overconcentrated, while also protecting my corner (from invasion, not yet reduction). That is not so?


A two space low extension is a bit over concentrated, but not a two space high extension. And by now you should know that this kick, without a follow-up, does not prevent a corner invasion.

Quote:
Quote:
:b44: Better to atari at Q-12 and sacrifice the one stone, eh?

Yes. Didn't read out the capture of the two stones, thought he was overplaying with the cut.


The time to read that out was by move :b68:, if not sooner. :)

Quote:
Quote:
General flaw: playing too close to your own strength, thereby robbing it of its force.

I think the hard part about this is also knowing what is strength, what isn't. Early on you give the example of :b30: being too close to my own strength, while for me it was a double purpose move of enlarging my base (because I didn't figure my group was strength) and undercutting white or limiting his eye space potentially.


Well, you had just sacrificed three stones to make your top left corner secure. If White approaches it, it is still alive. So White's approach does not gain much. By the same token, Black's extension of territory does not gain much, either. G-06 would also have been a dual purpose play, but on a large scale.

Now, had you attacked at B-08, undercutting White while threatening to connect towards either side, that would have been different matter. :) Then your strength in the top left corner would have been a safe haven for the B-08 stone to run to.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

My two main guides in life:
My mother and my wife. :)

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Yet another request! Handicap game
Post #5 Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:12 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 562
Liked others: 90
Was liked: 617
Rank: maybe 2d
Ian Butler wrote:
Thank you, Bill.
Quote:
General flaw: playing too close to your own strength, thereby robbing it of its force.

I think the hard part about this is also knowing what is strength, what isn't. Early on you give the example of :b30: being too close to my own strength, while for me it was a double purpose move of enlarging my base (because I didn't figure my group was strength) and undercutting white or limiting his eye space potentially.


It's strength because it's basically alive already. Say white approaches, and black ignores. And then white gets w3-b4 as well.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc B2 tenuki
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . X O . O . . . .
$$ | . X O . O . . . .
$$ | . X O , O O . . .
$$ | . . X O O . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . 4 X . . . . . .
$$ | . 3 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now what for white? Playing at the bulky-5-like point doesn't kill.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Black alive (actually B4 at W5 could be more points)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . 5 . O . . . . .
$$ | 6 X O . O . . . .
$$ | . X O . O . . . .
$$ | 4 X O , O O . . .
$$ | 1 3 X O O . . . .
$$ | 2 . X . . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hane and attempt at ko fails because black squishes it from behind.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Black alive
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . X O . O . . . .
$$ | . X O . O . . . .
$$ | 6 X O , O O . . .
$$ | 3 4 X O O . . . .
$$ | 2 5 X . . . . . .
$$ | 1 X X . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Or maybe you go back one move and see instead this response for black as a simple way to prove that it's at least alive (ignoring endgame points and/or the effect of being more forceful on white's sidegroup).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Black immediately has eyes now at A and B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . X O . O . . . .
$$ | . X O . O . . . .
$$ | a X O , O O . . .
$$ | 4 b X O O . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . 3 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


You can consider other variations too yourself.

And if you realize black is still fine even when tenukiing a direct white attempt to threaten it, hopefully the group seems pretty strong for the time being.

Perhaps this might be not all that far from your reading ability in a real game? Although of course the trick even then is getting it into your intuition as well, and/or having the thought to consider this idea in the first place.

Top
 Profile  
 
Online
 Post subject: Re: Yet another request! Handicap game
Post #6 Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:01 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 10202
Liked others: 3438
Was liked: 3290
A couple of more variations:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Black alive in seki
$$ -------------------
$$ | . 1 . O . . . . .
$$ | 2 X O . O . . . .
$$ | . X O . O . . . .
$$ | 5 X O , O O . . .
$$ | 7 6 X O O . . . .
$$ | 3 . X . . . . . .
$$ | 4 X X . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Black alive
$$ -------------------
$$ | . 1 . O . . . . .
$$ | . X O . O . . . .
$$ | . X O . O . . . .
$$ | . X O , O O . . .
$$ | 2 . X O O . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . X X . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Black alive
$$ -------------------
$$ | . 6 . O . . . . .
$$ | . X O . O . . . .
$$ | . X O . O . . . .
$$ | . X O , O O . . .
$$ | 3 5 X O O . . . .
$$ | 2 . X . . . . . .
$$ | 1 X X . . . . . .
$$ | 4 O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc 2d line approach in gote
$$ -------------------
$$ | . 4 . O . . . . .
$$ | . X O . O . . . .
$$ | . X O . O . . . .
$$ | . X O , O O . . .
$$ | 2 . X O O . . . .
$$ | 1 . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | 3 . . . . . . . .
$$ | . W . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

My two main guides in life:
My mother and my wife. :)

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group