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 Post subject: Looking for Reviews on My Games
Post #1 Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:10 am 
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Hi all,

If you are following my post on Study Journal threat titled "My Path to Shodan - And Eventually 9 Dan Amateur" you may know that I'll be posting my games for review on this thread.

So for starting, here's one practice game I played with the bot at OGS (Spectral 4k) and I lost by 4.5 points as Black.

There are 2 points during the game which I've no idea where to play:-
1. Move 40: I'm not sure where should I play to start with. The board has no weak groups at the moment and is it correct that I should play on big points? I've 3 candidates but I'm unsure which is the best: J17, K3, C12. I went for C12 because I fear the group may become target of attack and I will have hard time to maneuver around since they lie on the other side of the board and is not connected to any of my corner groups.
2. Move 56: Again, no obvious weak groups yet. I choose H17 because I wanted to try out attaching variations but it seems like it doesn't really gain me anything.

I guess the game was then pretty much decided as all groups are now having little issue of life and death and it's up to end game moves or whoever makes the mistake.

Appreciate for everyone's input and review on my game and also pointing out what's wrong :bow:



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 Post subject: Re: Looking for Reviews on My Games
Post #2 Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:44 am 
Gosei
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Strategically: + good opening - in the late middle game don't forget about the centre
Technically: + in general, good technique - allowing hane at the head of two is giving your stones bad shape (48, 62)

14: make your own enclosure instead; there's no room for an extension here; if Black encloses too, you can take the bottom extension
36-38-40: good flow; you take a big point naturally!
48: you could wedge or hane instead; also you can prepare the invasion by cutting through the keima at P3
62: don't bother; Black has many stones here so this area is small; instead you can push up at G16
68: good
72: think of the table shape for connecting (N11)
78: when Black resists your peep like this, there is actually aji at N2; running with a peep feels bad anyway; instead F14 is at the border of two potential territories
84: capturing is not small, as Black's defense would be sente, but F14 is still bigger

So when Black enlarges his moyo, I think he's ahead. However, you come in and connect at 96, which brings you back into a definite lead.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for Reviews on My Games
Post #3 Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:07 pm 
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Knowtwilg, zafuri95 is black ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for Reviews on My Games
Post #4 Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:11 pm 
Gosei
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Tryss wrote:
Knowtwilg, zafuri95 is black ;)


Hahaha!

That's good!

I'll redo.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for Reviews on My Games
Post #5 Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:03 pm 
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14 - when White enters your "Chinese" like this, the standard pattern starts by developing and pressuring at O4; White will attach and settle but you get superior influence

25 - dropping down like this is not basic; simply block, even if White will get successive ataris

White settles a little too easily there

35 - the bottom is bigger than the top; I think it's better to apprach the top, so that WHite must develop into a less interesting area

40 - indeed, White has a fairly easy game this way. The sides are less interesting now, so maybe reduce at E15 to start building a centre?

55 - an easy mistake to fix: if you play here, simply drop down to N2

57 - an interesting idea!

59 - laying yourself in White's arms this way is not good; better hane and create something out of nothing (sabaki)

65 - better one higher

67 - now 65 becomes superfluous; it's better now to abaondon those 2 stones and start building the centre, for example at G5

69 - "if you don't answer I will cut"; but obviously White will answer

83 - good move

When White enters at 84, you should cut him off.

96 - White connects, game is difficult now.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for Reviews on My Games
Post #6 Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:10 am 
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Knotwilg wrote:
the bottom is bigger than the top; I think it's better to apprach the top


Did you mean the opoposite?

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Post #7 Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:14 am 
Honinbo

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A few comments:

Your opening is generally fine. :)

:b25: Must block on 3d line. Like Knotwilg says. :)

:b33: Not sente. Play elsewhere.

:b39: Slow, and unnecessary. Depending on circumstances you may even sacrifice the two stones in the bottom left. Approach the top left corner now. If White simply replies, you can come back and extend to D-09 (4th line is good in this case). If instead White pincers the two stones, you can pincer the top left corner or press down on it with E-16.

:b41: This kind of position can be confusing, because there are many possibilities. Actually, nearly all of them are playable. Pick one and don't worry about it. :) Your extension is fine. :)

:b43: Ditto. Your K-03 is OK, but it leaves weaknesses behind. Maybe better just to extend to L-03.

:b45: Neither here nor there. Better to extend on the bottom side to H-03, which threatens E-02. At this point in the opening, a one space extension on the 3d line is often good. :)

:b51: Extend to J-03. The White atari at J-03 next is painful.

:b55: Do not play this atari. The threat to take two stones is small. And the right way to do it is to sagari, not atari. That way if White connects it will not threaten to take the Black stone.

:b57: Again, there are a number of different ways to play, most of them OK. :) In particular, the top left looks inviting, the most likely result being a reduction, building outside strength, maybe sacrificing a stone or two.

However, your play, which threatens to cut off the White stone on K-17, is not so good, mainly because of the White 2d line attachment at M-18. Better the 3d line attachment at E-17, mainly to sacrifice that stone, or the 4th line attachment at G-16. If White plays hane against G-16, it is probably best to play the counter hane on the 5th line.

:b59: Heavy, taking away your own liberty and giving White a good move at J-18. Crosscut looks much better. Now if White ataris the crosscut stone, you have a nice sacrifice, staring at G-16. If he captures, make the ko, if he extends, then atari again at J-18. If White simply extends to J-18 without playing atari, atari at F-17 and then maybe extend to F-16, offering the sacrifice. These positions can get complicated, so maybe there is something even better. :)

:b65: Neither here nor there. Better to hane at G-16, which at least threatens something.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for Reviews on My Games
Post #8 Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:22 pm 
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jlt wrote:
Knotwilg wrote:
the bottom is bigger than the top; I think it's better to apprach the top


Did you mean the opoposite?


No, when approaching, the opponent has a standard response of developing to the other side. So when I can approach opposite 3-4 points, I'd choose the one where the development to the other side is less interesting.

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Post #9 Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:34 pm 
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OK. Somehow I see your point but it still feels paradoxical to play in area A when area B is bigger.

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Post #10 Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:16 am 
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I see knotwilg's point, but think it only makes sense if the opponent follows certain choices which he need not do and even then it's dodgy.

First, the axioms of the position:
- black o4 is high not low so that area is still fairly hot, particularly as White's right side group is now strong. White may cut at P3 directly or approach at M3. Black first would like to fix at eg l3 or some lost extension.
- m17 makes top side not so interesting. Neither player can build much there: black can't make much as White would have good endgame m18 or even N16 for cut and fight. Likewise White potential is already reduced by black stones there.

I think what Knotwilg is saying is if black plays c15 approach and White answers on other side with E16/f16/h17 the White is playing on boring top side so black is happy. But if black approaches C5 and White answers at e4/f4/g3 then white is playing on the more interesting bottom making o4 sader. But there's several things wrong with this argument.
- 1, it assumes the approach is sente. It is not: White could tenuki to enclose the other corner. Indeed as White I would C6 enclose in response to c15 snd endure the e16 press as top side less interesting, and also not fear black double approach g17 as m18 yose makes top small for black. Conversely if black approaches bottom corner and White similarly tenukid to enclose top left, I think black is happy this way because now black is happy to double approach from G3 precisely because the lower side is interesting so this helps patch the o4 weakness indirectly. So because the bottom is more interesting, a black approach there is more sente and it's more likely black will get to approach both corners.
2. Is it even true that a white stone around e4 makes o4 sad? It's quite far away so black can still play a nice gote move at l3 later. F4 leaves black a nice move at h3, and g3 is so low and passive Black's already smiling.
3. If White does answer one approach it allows black to get both approaches. Approaching a 3-4 is very high up the list of move size classes in my opening gospel according to LeelaZero. This likely trumps any second order direction of play concerns.

Anyway, both approaches are good moves, they are far more important things for a SDK to worry about.


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Post #11 Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:46 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
I see knotwilg's point, but think it only makes sense if the opponent follows certain choices which he need not do and even then it's dodgy.
(...)
Anyway, both approaches are good moves, they are far more important things for a SDK to worry about.


I'll retract my comment and I agree that even if I had been correct, there are more important things to learn at this stage than which side to approach.

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Post #12 Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:47 pm 
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As mentioned in my Study Journal, below are my most recent game highlights.
Appreciate for any feedbacks :)

vs. Singapore 3 Dan (3 Handicaps)


vs. Local club player (3 kyu KGS)


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Post #13 Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:17 am 
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Concerning your second game, not sure I can comment (I am 3k on KGS) but here are some remarks:

The cuts P7 and O18 don't seem to achieve much.

:b47: looks slow, it is not threatening anything, nor building much.


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Post #14 Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:52 am 
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Quote:
The cuts P7 and O18 don't seem to achieve much.

Yes after the game my local 3 Dan reviewed and commented these 2 moves aren't doing much. Perhaps I should just harass the unsettled white group on the right.

Quote:
:b47: looks slow, it is not threatening anything, nor building much.

I'm actually trying to stabilize my left side's group because seeing that white is slowly building towards center it will cause issue to the group if I don't try and reinforce or make shape.

Where would you suggest to play in this case? If the plan is to stabilized left black group? Or there are other urgent moves?

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Post #15 Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:26 am 
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I don't think your left side group needs to be defended at move 47, it is not much in danger.

N14 seems to be an important point, it is kind of double sente. If White plays there, he can press you down while building a moyo on the top. In general it is important to play at the border of two moyos: try to expand one's moyo while preventing the opponent from expanding theirs.

Another point is that White's O6 group is not secure yet. It is not very weak, but doesn't have eyes yet, so you can harass it a bit, maybe by playing around O10. If you can force the opponent to defend, then you get stones in the center for free, and these stones may be useful later to prepare an invasion or a reduction, or to save another one of your own groups that might be in difficulty later.

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Post #16 Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:44 am 
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zafuri95 wrote:
Quote:
:b47: looks slow, it is not threatening anything, nor building much.

I'm actually trying to stabilize my left side's group because seeing that white is slowly building towards center it will cause issue to the group if I don't try and reinforce or make shape.


We are talking about the game between Thng-some_number?

:b47: is not bad, but the earlier extension on the left side is questionable. Why not play the double approach against the top left corner? Black could have done that earlier, as well.

Back to :b47:. The one space extension on the 3d line can be made at this stage of the game, because there is no two space extension possible. Extending on the 4th line is a bit wishy washy, though. Locally the 3d line attachment against White's group in the bottom left looks good to me. The likely result will be that you strengthen your left side, while White gets a bit overconcentrated.

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Post #17 Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 3:17 am 
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In the game against the Singapore 3d which you won by 30 points, I can't find any suspect move at first glance. It seems like you could play even with this player and so are 3d already.

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Post #18 Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 3:50 am 
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Knotwilg wrote:
In the game against the Singapore 3d which you won by 30 points, I can't find any suspect move at first glance. It seems like you could play even with this player and so are 3d already.


I think to play on even might be an exaggeration, as I lost the subsequent game to a 3k. Perhaps there are still things that I need to work on I.E. fundamentals and the consistency.

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Post #19 Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:28 am 
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zafuri95 wrote:
Knotwilg wrote:
In the game against the Singapore 3d which you won by 30 points, I can't find any suspect move at first glance. It seems like you could play even with this player and so are 3d already.


I think to play on even might be an exaggeration, as I lost the subsequent game to a 3k. Perhaps there are still things that I need to work on I.E. fundamentals and the consistency.


In that first game, you were bullying a 3 dan. Just look at 156. I'm 2d and wouldn't have found the move, let alone find the correct sequence to capitalize on it. You outsmarted a 3d there. At 116 you play at the centre of 3 stones, a technique as fundamental as they get. It didn't work out but technically it was dan level. At 66 you connect, having read out the corner aji and the possiblity to cut off his left side. You do so with a nifty hanging connection at 76, then follow up with a boshi at 80, to take sente with 84 and grow the centre.

That's very very impressive. I wish I could play like that.

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Post #20 Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:47 am 
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Knotwilg wrote:
zafuri95 wrote:
Knotwilg wrote:
In the game against the Singapore 3d which you won by 30 points, I can't find any suspect move at first glance. It seems like you could play even with this player and so are 3d already.


I think to play on even might be an exaggeration, as I lost the subsequent game to a 3k. Perhaps there are still things that I need to work on I.E. fundamentals and the consistency.


In that first game, you were bullying a 3 dan. Just look at 156. I'm 2d and wouldn't have found the move, let alone find the correct sequence to capitalize on it. You outsmarted a 3d there. At 116 you play at the centre of 3 stones, a technique as fundamental as they get. It didn't work out but technically it was dan level. At 66 you connect, having read out the corner aji and the possiblity to cut off his left side. You do so with a nifty hanging connection at 76, then follow up with a boshi at 80, to take sente with 84 and grow the centre.

That's very very impressive. I wish I could play like that.


Thank you. I'm pleased with the compliment but also at the same time equally bothered with my loss on the next game.

In the first game, the "flow" came to me after the left side cut, and I tried my best to exercise what it meant to enclose a group and build influence. Move 156 happened to be strikingly similar to the fundamental tesuji patterns that I practised so it was actually obvious to me. I'm trying to find the correct timing to execute the cut. Move 84 was made as there was no obvious weak groups , so I guessed I should turn my influences into territory and played that. The idea came from a NHK Cup game played by Takemiya that I watched few months ago.

In the second game, I wasn't consistent I believe ... I let loose and threw the game away when I'm somewhat ahead in the middle game. Perhaps lacking experience is what I should fix.

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