It is currently Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:03 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: A few SDK games
Post #1 Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:44 pm 
Beginner

Posts: 2
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 2
Recently played these, I am 9k on OGS―though that's residual from an account that's been long inactive so my "true" strength is a mystery to me... I feel my greatest weakness is early game, particularly the transition from fuseki to middle-game really leaves me empty-handed if I have sente. Maybe I am playing too passive?





Attachments:
9k-v-11k.sgf [1.01 KiB]
Downloaded 51 times
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: A few SDK games
Post #2 Posted: Fri May 01, 2020 12:36 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 961
Liked others: 83
Was liked: 350
I think the most important lesson you should learn from game 2 is
  • Don't let your opponent hane at the head of your two stones unless you have a very good reason to do so.
  • Seriously consider to hane at the head of your opponent's two stones if you have the possibility.

For instance:
At move 14, you played away, but this allows your opponent to play later at D14. This would give White a good shape (tiger's mouth) and Black a bad shape (hane at the head of two stones). Did you consider to play :b14: at D14? Were you afraid this would not be sente? Suppose White doesn't respond, did you read what happens if you push at C14 and then cut?

:b23: continue at C6.

:w28: played away, so you know that C7 is an interesting point for both players. Not to be played immediately but interesting for later.

:b35: should have been at N17. You see that :w36: hanes at the head of your two stones.

:b39: should be at M16.

:b43: now you see that your shape is constricted.

:b45: it's rarely a good move to cut directly like that, unless you have enough support nearby.

:b48: now you see that your two stones have been haned on both sides.

After :w78: your group is almost dead so this is almost game over.

For game 1, you clearly outplayed your opponent but you made a few joseki mistakes.

:b15: is better at C6.

:b23: is usually at J17 or H16.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: A few SDK games
Post #3 Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 5:13 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 5378
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1016
Was liked: 1410
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
In game 1, move 25 is the wrong direction. Q17 would work well with your top side stones.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject:
Post #4 Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 6:22 pm 
Honinbo
User avatar

Posts: 8819
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 341
Was liked: 2067
GD Posts: 312
Hi greenshoes,
game 1, :b25: very minor (~2%):
Attachment:
25.png
25.png [ 21.72 KiB | Viewed 1340 times ]
:b55: -15% drop for you, but :w56: cut was losing move, -46% for W (W should've taken F13 for himself), and you kept climbing to 99% by :b75:.
A few % fluctuations very minor.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: A few SDK games
Post #5 Posted: Mon May 04, 2020 12:31 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1479
Liked others: 794
Was liked: 492
Rank: AGA 3k KGS 1k Fox 1d
GD Posts: 61
KGS: dfan
These days, AIs and pros often prefer "blocking in the wrong direction" when someone invades underneath the star point. But that's because they understand the joseki followups very well, which often end up blocking in the right direction at the end of the day. Until one has spent some time learning those subtleties, I think it's best to play the old way, where you try to choose the blocking move that works best with the stones that it's facing.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: A few SDK games
Post #6 Posted: Mon May 04, 2020 12:38 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 10218
Liked others: 3441
Was liked: 3292
dfan wrote:
These days, AIs and pros often prefer "blocking in the wrong direction" when someone invades underneath the star point. But that's because they understand the joseki followups very well, which often end up blocking in the right direction at the end of the day. Until one has spent some time learning those subtleties, I think it's best to play the old way, where you try to choose the blocking move that works best with the stones that it's facing.


Besides which, the difference between blocking one way and another, in terms of AI winrate estimates with similar numbers of rollouts per candidate play, is typically less than 1%. I.e, indistinguishable from noise. ;) Call me if it's more than 2%. So, in the mortal words of Aleister Crowley, Do what thou wilt. :mrgreen:

Edit; In this case, I see that one option is slightly more than 2% better in terms of winrate estimates, but one option has 27k rollouts and the other has only 1.5k rollouts, which is not similar enough for a good comparison, in my book. Still, the recommended play looks better to me. :)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

My two main guides in life:
My mother and my wife. :)

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: A few SDK games
Post #7 Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 1:21 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1717
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Liked others: 267
Was liked: 793
Rank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4d
KGS: Artevelde
OGS: Knotwilg
Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
dfan wrote:
These days, AIs and pros often prefer "blocking in the wrong direction" when someone invades underneath the star point. But that's because they understand the joseki followups very well, which often end up blocking in the right direction at the end of the day. Until one has spent some time learning those subtleties, I think it's best to play the old way, where you try to choose the blocking move that works best with the stones that it's facing.


The way I see it, "blocking in the wrong direction" also takes into account the stones present, but in a different way than we traditionally do. Traditionally we take stones present as an extension from the wall that forms when blocking, building a moyo.
The AI way looks at stones present as keeping the stability in check of the ponnuki that forms after the double hane.

The double hane has gained preference over the hane-stretch, because the former claims back the corner, while the latter builds influence. So the question then, instead of "in which direction will I form the best moyo" becomes "in which direction is the ponnuki the easiest to keep in check".


This post by Knotwilg was liked by: dfan
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group