I have some short comments. I am pretty weak, so take my comments as suggestions.
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| Lost very bad to a 7k http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6544 |
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| Author: | otenki [ Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Lost very bad to a 7k |
Hey guys, I was winning to some 8k's so I tried playing a 7k on kgs. I thought I was doing quite ok in the opening but then i lost some very big points in midgame. Any thoughts ? Thx, Otenki |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
| Author: | otenki [ Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lost very bad to a 7k |
Thanks a lot ed, One quick question. You say that 56 is bad, and i understand it gives me broken shape but it does give me a big corner. What would a good variation to my move be ? Cheers, Otenki |
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| Author: | mw42 [ Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lost very bad to a 7k |
The problem with q7 is that it is very passive which is never a good way to play. The hane on the other side is better, but the clamp at s8 will give you problems. So you might try something like r9 which threatens to rescue your three stones. If white blocks, then you cleanly capture his one stone. If white connects, then you connect your three stones. Depending on how white plays, you may have a peep at o10 which could be troublesome. Later, you can plan to cut at o14. |
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| Author: | otenki [ Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lost very bad to a 7k |
mw42 wrote: The problem with q7 is that it is very passive which is never a good way to play. The hane on the other side is better, but the clamp at s8 will give you problems. So you might try something like r9 which threatens to rescue your three stones. If white blocks, then you cleanly capture his one stone. If white connects, then you connect your three stones. Depending on how white plays, you may have a peep at o10 which could be troublesome. Later, you can plan to cut at o14. Ok thanks I understand what you are saying. Cheers, Otenki |
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| Author: | topazg [ Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lost very bad to a 7k |
I also don't think the hane is that bad, and I certainly think continuing to push wasn't awful. It's broken shape, but it thickly fixes the previously thin shape and reduces aji down the left hand side, I don't believe either of the alternatives that are obvious are particularly better, at least not enough to give it an awful label. M8 @ N8 maybe ok, as that makes it hard for White to play the way he did, but the hane looks sensible to me if you're struggling to read out the details. It's better to concede O9 was a mistake all along if that's what you read it was than to resist strongly if you read that it turns out badly. |
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| Author: | lemmata [ Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:09 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Lost very bad to a 7k | ||
I have some short comments. I am pretty weak, so take my comments as suggestions.
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| Author: | Uberdude [ Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lost very bad to a 7k |
White 20 is a mistake as it allows you to play d12 which is a perfect shape (strong, lots of territory, nice 3rd line to 4th line wave so it can't be pressed low nor snuck in from the sides, s16 good yose point). White should have invaded at c12 to prevent you from making the perfect shape. But then obviously your k17 tenuki for 21 is an even bigger mistake. Why? Because when white plays c12 you can't kill that stone so it cuts you into 2 weak groups. But not just weak groups, heavy groups. c14 is a heavy group because you made the b16 c17 exchange. This means you can't easily sacrifice c14 on a small scale by jumping into the corner at c17. So if you omitted the b16 c17 exchange then the tenuki to k17 would be playable, but by committing more stones to the area you have made c14 heavier so need to continue with d12. This idea of not making the slide for 3-3 exchange because you want the flexibility to dodge into 3-3 comes up a lot. 27: hurts your c10 stone, but that's the sort of price you pay for allowing white c12 to split you. 53 is a nice boundary of moyos move. Maybe you could also consider r9 to try to fix the q8 problems in sente: if white tenukis (say to k6, also a good point) you connect at s10 which is big for points and also makes that white group have uncertain eyeshape, if white s10 then he does have a nice monkey jump for later (and maybe even an invasion trying to combine r6 and something in the corner) but then you come back to k7. 57: cut and ko lock seems best: 59: I disagree with Ed and his broken shape obsession that this is awful. Given your bad 57, this is quite possibly the best move for this board position (maybe r9 first is better, if white answers then block at p7 next, but maybe white ignores r9 to play p7 and trash your moyo and a trade/fighting results which I need to think/read more to judge). The key broken shape occurred on move 57, when your q7 and o9 moves made the elephant jump shape and white split them at p8. o9 is now a damaged stone (even though it still has 4 liberties) and trying to save it with something like o8 would indeed be awful leading to the classic ripped keima when white charges into your territory at p7. The decision to sacrifice o9 and secure a large territory was a good one: q7 is an important stone, o9 is not. 71: This is like punching yourself in the face, with the m17 invasion white is trying to separate k17 from o16, and you just help him do it. Instead play m16 to connect them. Or maybe you can defend the corner at o18 (which aims at m18 connect) or p18 and leave k17 alone for now but it's pretty big to sacrifice and as white has s14 the corner feels dodgy so not worth defending. That you felt the need to spend a move at r17 and s15 to secure the corner shows how little n17 gained (and it lost a lot in exchange). This kind of move is similar to the broken shape of a ripped keima (Ed's favourite) in that you are cutting your own stones apart, but with them spaced out a bit more (and is just as important). |
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| Author: | otenki [ Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lost very bad to a 7k |
Thanks to you all for your replies, I have again learned a lot. I'll try to not make the same mistakes again.  Oh and Uberdude, thanks for the ko-lock example. This is something that I would not have looked for myself. It's something I can think of in upcoming games, always good to have new ideas. Cheers, Otenki |
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