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| frustrating invasions http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8112 |
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| Author: | cherryhill [ Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:51 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | frustrating invasions | ||
games like this hurt. cause they make me wonder why i build territory if i am so utterly incapable of defending it. also the tengen scared me, wasn't sure what to do about it. i'm white. 18kyu game on tygem vs a public computer at some korean salon. appreciate any comments guys
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| Author: | EdLee [ Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:07 am ] |
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cherryhill wrote: cause they make me wonder why i build territory if i am so utterly incapable of defending it. Most, maybe all, babies of all living things,including our very own immune system, have to learn to fight and defend themselves over time, through experience, trial-and-error. Yes, at times very painfully.  It's not how many times we fall; it's that we get back up. I'm sure you already know the cliches... they have truths in them. |
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| Author: | Bill Spight [ Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: frustrating invasions |
cherryhill wrote: games like this hurt. cause they make me wonder why i build territory if i am so utterly incapable of defending it. Takagawa said that go is a game of territory. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to make territory. (My paraphrase.  )His point was that what looks like territory early in the game does not always turn into territory at the end of the game. He went on to explain that territory is made in the skirmishes, when its boundaries are secured. (Again, my paraphrase.) Books have been written about plays inside the opponent's (apparent) territory. Sometimes they capture one or more stones, sometimes they make a sacrifice for profit on the outside (by comparison with the opponent playing first). Now, you may or may not have made a defensive mistake in the game -- I have not looked --, but remember that until the end of the game, most territory is tentative.
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| Author: | billywoods [ Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: frustrating invasions |
I thought you defended your territory mostly pretty well, except 58 where you tenukied an invasion(!) and 90 where you misread the life-and-death problem (black should die). Those large low-to-high three-space extensions, like the one you made on the right-hand side, are not territory, and are easy to invade or reduce without extra supporting stones. You also left it a little late to reduce black's huge lower left moyo - concentrating on building your own territory rather than worrying about what your opponent was doing. Perhaps someone stronger than me could go and plant a little living group in the lower left corner - I don't know. |
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| Author: | skydyr [ Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: frustrating invasions |
billywoods wrote: I thought you defended your territory mostly pretty well, except 58 where you tenukied an invasion(!) and 90 where you misread the life-and-death problem (black should die). Those large low-to-high three-space extensions, like the one you made on the right-hand side, are not territory, and are easy to invade or reduce without extra supporting stones. You also left it a little late to reduce black's huge lower left moyo - concentrating on building your own territory rather than worrying about what your opponent was doing. Perhaps someone stronger than me could go and plant a little living group in the lower left corner - I don't know. It looked like it should be possible with skillful sacrificing, but not easy. Attaching to the lower left stone seems like a start... |
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| Author: | jts [ Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: frustrating invasions |
A few quick comments: 1. Go is fun!  If playing Go hurts, you're going about it wrong. For example, if you don't like playing Korean club accounts, play on KGS, where you have a good chance of getting an appropriate handicap.2. Just so we're on the same page: a move like  is an invasion, but it's not really an invasion of your territory. You have three stones spread across the entire right side. You don't really control it yet; perhaps that's your zone where you have some control, but you shouldn't think of yourself as "defending white territory". It's expected on a board like this that B will invade the right side, make a group, and W will get influence which can then be used for operations against the center or the corners.3. ... speaking of which. I wouldn't ignore the invasion quite so soon, but if you do tenuki to play in the lower right, you need to aim at the R3 invasion. Moves like P5 are poisonous; you strengthen him and make the prospects for a corner invasion much worse.4. I think it has already been remarked that you can't just completely ignore a move like  and expect B to get nothing on top. (You can ignore it, of course; but you have to ignore because you think there's something bigger on the board, and you're expecting to exchange the top-right side for an urgent move elsewhere.) But even after you've ignored and let it grow, don't let B connect his two invasions!  threatens to connect. If you cut the two invasions apart, you can still hope to kill one of them. Once they are connected, they share eyes..5. It's worth distinguishing between defending your territory - which I think of as involving middle game attack-and-defense skills - and keeping dead groups dead, which requires good life and death skills. The two are intimately connected, but here you did a great job attacking the invasion in the upper left corner. You just didn't kill it after reducing it to an obviously dead shape. |
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| Author: | otenki [ Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: frustrating invasions |
Hi, Most things have been said here but I just quickly would like to re-iterate the importance of the life & death at the top left corner. You see that his group at the left top looks like a L shape with one stone missing at D17 ? Whenever you see this L group with or without the D17 remember that it is dead. As Edlee sugested B18 is the vital point. Try to put this on a board and make black reply @ A18. What would white do now in order to kill it? If you do this excersise for 5 minutes and really understand this shape, you will never make this mistake again and always kill of this wrong invasion. Good luck, keep playing on tygem ... even if it makes you angry at times. It is one of the places that truly make you stronger. Cheers, Otenki |
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| Author: | Dragon Pie [ Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: frustrating invasions |
9: Small move. 13: Small move. 16: Up to this move, you've completely outplayed black. 19: Black is trying to defend what he wants to be his territory He can't keep it all and attaching to a stone typically makes the opponent's stones stronger which should not be black's aim here. But, you should ask yourself, what should your first instinct be when the opponent attaches to your stone? It should be to hane or extend. 32: At this point, it's a mistake to play away from his weak group. A play in the area threatening his group is very large. If you threaten to seal in his group and he doesn't respond, it'll be another huge follow up to seal his group in and he'll have to live in gote. If he runs out, you got the attacking move in sente. 54: Small. What about a move at N13? 74: First instinct should be to keep his stones disconnected. This lets his groups connect. 90: This is an indication that you have something to gain from studying some basic life and death problems. This group should die, but a move like the one that you played (Which is occasionally the correct tesuji, but much less often than other moves such as a hane or descent or a play inside that splits the eyespace. 96: This move that works in a similar, but not identical shape shows that perhaps you've studied some life and death problems. Perhaps you should start with some very basic ones to build instincts first and then when you have those down, you can learn to read trickier variations such as the shape in which this ko occurs. |
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| Author: | tekesta [ Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: frustrating invasions |
White 90 should be @ B18. This one move would make it difficult for Black to live in the corner. D17 is inconsequential. White can play @ E16 or F16 if Black threatens to cut. I also noticed that in the opening you allowed Black to amass territory in the SW part of the board. Whenever I let that happen I end up losing badly. (And I am ranked 10k on KGS.) It is best to invade your opponent's moyo before it gets closed off and becomes territory. White 16 was too slow a move for the opening. Kosumi are good for fighting situations, but in the opening the players should concentrate on spreading one's own influence all over the board while disrupting that of the opponent's. White 8 should be @ Q10 to reduce the effectiveness of the Black stones at Q4. Black seems to be playing an influence game and White should try her best to hamper Black's strategy. Usually 4-4 stone should extend to a star point on the 4th line to enhance potential for influence, so @ D10 would've probably been better. If Black attempts an invasion of the top side at this point, even though it would be impossible to kill Black (since there is plenty of space for him to make life), White should press Black in an attack. In the process of attacking the Black group, White can create territory. Until I understood that territory is the result of using influence to attack a weak group, I almost always lost games whenever I played for influence. Dragon Pie's comment on White 74 is important. Techniques for connecting and separating stones are basic for any Baduk player. A play @ M16 would've been better, IMO. Black might try to connect @ L16 or play @ M14 to save L15. White could then play @ M17 to create a cutting point in Black's 3-stone formation. I would recommend plenty of problems for life & death, tesuji, and vital points. Knowledge of techniques for each of these considerations will allow you to handle tactical situations with relative ease. Also study opening theory; what happens in the opening determines what happens for the rest of the game. It is possible to fall behind in the opening and make a comeback in the middle game through fierce fighting, but fall too far behind and the game is already lost. Finally, study a few professional games with commentary to get a feel for how a game of Baduk is normally played. Here you can get some ideas to help you play better. |
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