Life In 19x19
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New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8550		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  gmsa84 [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game
Hi everyone,

I'm new to both Go and this forum. I've been playing for a couple of weeks now, but only a week against humans, and it became clear that playing against bots is not a good idea =). By reviewing my games I see I make lots of mistakes, but some of them I cannot see how I could have done better at. If you could take a few moments to answer my questions regarding the game below, I would really appreciate it :)
.


Mov. 5 = this was obviously not a good choice, he would always be one stone ahead of me there. What would have been better? My guess would be F6, E or F8, or H5 or 6. Would it be better to play more conservative with E8 or H6, or more agressive with F8 or H5? Or none of the above?

Mov. 19 = I thought the right thing to do was to start attacking somewhere else. Was it a good decision?

Mov. 20ff = I thought E3 would be the best answer against D3, but his play at F4 completely threw me off. I still cannot see a way to respond well to it. My best guess so far is G4...

Mov. 32 = I couldn't find a better answer than H3, although it sucked still.

Mov. 40ff - same thing. Couldn't find a better answer yet. If I had established an eye at D6 earlier, I could have played D9 on mov. 43. Maybe not having that eye was the biggest mistake overall.

Mov. 55ff - I could have taken some territory in the lower left corner I guess. Oh well.

Many thanks!


[admin] Moved to appropriate forum. -JB [/admin]

Attachments:
gmsa84-3.sgf [1.59 KiB]
Downloaded 503 times
Author:  amnal [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game
At move 37 you play C9, but then your entire group dies!

So what's really important to this game is...what could you play instead that would save your stones? Any ideas?
Author:  gmsa84 [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game
Well, The only thing I can see is that he killed me there at 38. That move eliminated my possibility of building an eye in the center. I should have played there instead before him. Like I said in my previous post, if I had an eye in the center, I could have played D9 on move 43 and would have two eyes... That's all I can see here. :oops:
Author:  jts [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game
gmsa84 wrote:
Well, The only thing I can see is that he killed me there at 38. That move eliminated my possibility of building an eye in the center. I should have played there instead before him. Like I said in my previous post, if I had an eye in the center, I could have played D9 on move 43 and would have two eyes... That's all I can see here. :oops:

Is there anywhere you can play on move 37 to get more space to make eyes?
Author:  gmsa84 [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game
jts wrote:
Is there anywhere you can play on move 37 to get more space to make eyes?


Top right? G8?
Author:  Bill Spight [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game
A few comments. :)



Main focus: Look for key points for both sides.
Author:  gmsa84 [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game
Bill Spight wrote:
A few comments. :)
...
Main focus: Look for key points for both sides.


Thank you very much for the comments. It's still hard for me to see what points are key.

Your move 45 = right, I never think about that, sacrificing a stone to reduce eye space. Thanks!

Your move 49 = would G2 work to create the eye as well? I did G2 later in my game.

---------------------

I just played a game against a 1d player. Well, no points for me on this one. I tried to comment on my own mistakes, but again I'm not sure if my other choices are any better. Many thanks!



Attachments:
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Author:  schawipp [ Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game
In the first game - since w did not protect B2 - there is some nasty detail left:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm51 54 at 51
$$--------------------
$$| 3 X X . X O O . . |
$$| O O X . X O . . . |
$$| O X X X X X O . . |
$$| 1 O X , O O . . . |
$$| 2 O X X X O . O O |
$$| . O O X O O O O X |
$$| . . O O X X X X X |
$$| . 5 O X . . . . . |
$$| . O X X X . . . . |
$$---------------------[/go]

After B55 the w side is going to die first. However w could play move 54 on B2 (thereby sacrifying A7/A8/B8) and would still win by a small margin.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game
More comments. Thanks to shawipp for alerting me that Black could still have won at move 51. :)



The semeai has some interesting features. :)
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game
If black does save his upper group, then after D6 gets filled, there is some unpleasant aji for white:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc seki
$$--------------------
$$| X X X . X O O 5 . |
$$| . . X . X O 2 1 7 |
$$| X X X X X X O 3 6 |
$$| X O X O O O 4 . 8 |
$$| O O X X X O . O O |
$$| . O O X O O O O X |
$$| . . O O X X X X X |
$$| . O O X . . . . . |
$$| . O X X X . . . . |
$$---------------------[/go]


( White must play 4 to prevent a black throw-in that destroys white's eye at G4 )
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game
Not to mention this seki. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc seki
$$--------------------
$$| X X X . X O O . . |
$$| . . X . X O . . . |
$$| X X X X X X O . . |
$$| X O X O O O . . . |
$$| O O X X X O . O O |
$$| . O O X O O O O X |
$$| . . O O X X X X X |
$$| . O O X 2 . 4 . 6 |
$$| . O X X X 1 5 3 . |
$$---------------------[/go]
Author:  gmsa84 [ Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game
Thanks guys for all the input. Lots of stuff to learn here. :)
Author:  cyclops [ Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game
About the first game.
To get some experience you could try not to fill ko's unless you have to. At move 15 I wouldnt fill the ko but instead I would play B5. If he takes the ko I would cut at G6. Maybe you cannot be sure it will work but it will be fun for sure. Well, better players than me didn't give you this advice; try it at your own risk.
Author:  billywoods [ Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game
gmsa84 wrote:
I just played a game against a 1d player. Well, no points for me on this one. I tried to comment on my own mistakes, but again I'm not sure if my other choices are any better. Many thanks!


Comments on a few of your variations:

:b34: : No, after :w31: it is a false eye (and the group is dead) regardless of what black does. (There are two sensible-looking moves for black - J4 and H4 - and both fail. Can you see why? Hint for the sequence played in game: notice that, after :w33:, your stone at J4 is in atari!)

:b38: : Actually, I prefer B2 to all of those moves. As Bill said, try to focus on key points for both sides. B2 is at the 'boundary' of a black group and a white group. Pushing at boundaries gives you territory and extra eyespace. (Notice that white played at B2 soon afterwards.)

:b50: : In both of your variations, you lose the three stones at the top. (In variation 2, white can recapture. This is called a snapback, if you're interested.) More importantly, A7 is an urgent move for both sides - if black gets it, the black group lives; if white gets it, the black group dies.

Keep an eye on your eyespace. ;)
Author:  gmsa84 [ Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game
billywoods wrote:
:b34: : No, after :w31: it is a false eye (and the group is dead) regardless of what black does. (There are two sensible-looking moves for black - J4 and H4 - and both fail. Can you see why? Hint for the sequence played in game: notice that, after :w33:, your stone at J4 is in atari!)


I have a lot of trouble not seeing diagonals as connections, especially because they work for surrounding. Yes, now I see that Black playing J5 would isolate that group. Still, white could play at H6 and that would end the space for two eyes in there, I guess.

billywoods wrote:
:b38: : Actually, I prefer B2 to all of those moves. As Bill said, try to focus on key points for both sides. B2 is at the 'boundary' of a black group and a white group. Pushing at boundaries gives you territory and extra eyespace. (Notice that white played at B2 soon afterwards.)


OK, thanks!

billywoods wrote:
:b50: : In both of your variations, you lose the three stones at the top. (In variation 2, white can recapture. This is called a snapback, if you're interested.) More importantly, A7 is an urgent move for both sides - if black gets it, the black group lives; if white gets it, the black group dies.


Thanks for the hint about A7. :)
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