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Two (lost) games against mfgo09kyu2
http://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9180		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  tekesta [ Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Two (lost) games against mfgo09kyu2
I have recently decided to cut my teeth against the Go-bots on KGS. I still prefer to play humans, but I suppose one can get experience with bots since they usually calculate moves very well. Yesterday I played a few games against GnuGoBot39. No luck against that one :cry:

I played 2 games against mfgo09kyu2. In the first one, I too White and tried a territorial approach, but Black won by 25½ points. In the second, I took Black, switched to a tasukiboshi opening and played a môyô game. White won by 1½ points. Much obliged in advance for your comments.
Author:  dumbrope [ Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Two (lost) games against mfgo09kyu2
A few comments on the 1st game. I'm sure stronger players can find improvements to / flaws in in my specific suggestions, but here are some things I noticed.

1. Don't strike through knight's move if ladder is broken.

2. Work a little on direction of play in opening, big points. In general, low solid positions blight areas near them and make them less interesting.

3. Avoid following the opponent around. I think white sometimes answers moves by black that are clearly gote.
Author:  dumbrope [ Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Two (lost) games against mfgo09kyu2
Some slow moves in this game, too, and some careless misreads. Also, what's the status of white's group if black plays B18 at the end?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Status?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . O O X X . . X O O O O O . . . |
$$ | . 1 . O O X . . . . X X X X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . X O X O . O |
$$ | O O O O X . X O . X . . O X X X X O . |
$$ | X X O X X X O X . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | X O O X . . O . X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | X X X X . O . . . . . X X X O O . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X . X . X O O O . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X O . . O O O . . |
$$ | X X . , O X . . . X O . O O X X X O O |
$$ | O X X X . X . . . X O . . O X . X X O |
$$ | O O O X X . X X X O O . . O X . . O X |
$$ | . . . O X X X O X X X O O X X . X X X |
$$ | . . O O O O O O X X O . O X . . . X O |
$$ | . . O O X X X O O X O . . O X X X O O |
$$ | . O . , O X . X O X O . . O O X O O . |
$$ | . O . O O X X . X O O . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . O O . O O X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O X X X O O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Author:  tekesta [ Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Two (lost) games against mfgo09kyu2
To reply to your previous post, this is what I came up with after playing around with the diagram. This is failure for Black.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$w
$$----------------
$$-763.OOXX
$$-512OOX..
$$-84.OXX.X
$$-OOOOX.XO
$$-XXOXXXOX
$$-XOOX..O.
$$-XXXX.O..
$$-..OO.O.X[/go]

White 2 is what I expect because if this is played at 3-19 instead of 3-18, a ko can result, White expects a capturing race, so making a solid eye is top priority. I think the only way to kill White in the diagram is to prevent the formation of any eyes and fill in with T-4 or knife-5 eye shape. However, White 2 is a forcing move to provoke Black 3 and make an eye with White 4. At this stage a ko might be the only way to kill White; White 8 at 4-19 is self-atari. If White 8 is tenuki and Black 9 is at 4-19, White 10 captures at 2-19, and Black 11 takes at 3-19. Black can capture all the White stones once he wins the ko.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$w
$$-----------------
$$-5.3.OOXX
$$-612OOX..
$$-74.OXX.X
$$-OOOOX.XO
$$-XXOXXOX
$$-XOOX..O.
$$-XXXX.O..
$$-..OO.O.X[/go]

I applied some of the advice given in your review and I won this game against mfgo09kyu2. Here it is.



Black 113 was probably unnecessary; if White at a2, Black at d1 kills.
Author:  Dusk Eagle [ Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Two (lost) games against mfgo09kyu2
In this shape, if one side gets an eye and the other doesn't, the side with the eye will win. But if both sides get an eye or neither side does, then you have to keep reading to determine the result. So black cannot play :b3: at 'a', as when white plays 'b' white has one eye and black has none. But black could play :b3: at 'b', because if white makes an eye at 'a' black can make one at 'c', and if white spoils black's eye with 'c' black can spoil white's eye with 'a'.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$-----------------
$$-.ca.OOXX
$$-.12OOX..
$$-.b.OXX.X
$$-OOOOX.XO
$$-XXOXXOX
$$-XOOX..O.
$$-XXXX.O..
$$-..OO.O.X[/go]
Author:  tekesta [ Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Two (lost) games against mfgo09kyu2
Thank you for pointing out the other detail that was missing. I got lost after I found out White could make an eye. Now I realize that after Black gets an eye as well, White is dead.

Your answer is, Black 3 at B, White 4 at A, Black 5 at C... White 6 might be at 1-18 to threaten connection to the 1-16 stone, so Black 7 is at 1-17. White 8 at 3-17 is self-atari due to shortage of liberties.

It's logical White 4 would be at A after Black 3 at B, since a solid eye is preferable in capturing races. White 4 could be at C to prevent Black from making an eye, but the result is a false eye for White after Black 5 at A. White 6 takes at 4-19, then Black 7 is nobi to 1-18.

Today I was doing yardwork for several hours in clear, warm weather. Afterwards I played through a game record and ½ of another one, so I'm exhausted :lol: I'll need to come back to your puzzle later.
Author:  Dusk Eagle [ Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Two (lost) games against mfgo09kyu2
Actually, it's a seki ;). Once they both have two eyes, white can't approach black, and black can't approach white.
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