Life In 19x19 :: 14 k bloopers and blunders

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Author:

brodie [ Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:05 am ]

Post subject:

14 k bloopers and blunders

hello all, thanks in advance.
this is a recent game with another 13ish k on DGS. To be honest I haven't really played over the last 8 months, and have forgotten all my strategy and joseki. I felt a little scattered in the beginning of the game, confident in mid-game, and then confounded in the endgame when I realized that I was down about 5 points, and then put the nail in my own coffin with the blooper upper right.
Early and mid-game are the things I would love some pointers on.

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Author:	Boidhre [ Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 14 k bloopers and blunders
You need to copy the link address rather than the link name, like above.

Author:	brodie [ Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 14 k bloopers and blunders
Thanks Bhoidre (which is an anagram for Brodie H.), at the risk of sounding like an idiot, I swear that's what I did, but the first time it gave me a different URL. No matter, fixed now. And thanks, Marcel, that makes sense.

Author:	brodie [ Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 14 k bloopers and blunders
marcel, a few questions. i had thought that running towards the center, providing a lifeline, was a decent strategy for a pincer. incorrect? and with 26, isnt that just a part of staking out some of the side? i realize it makes 11 stronger, but what would have been a better move?

Author:	Bill Spight [ Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 14 k bloopers and blunders
Some comments on the opening. Main focus: Don't just run.

Author:	EdLee [ Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:
brodie wrote: i had thought that running towards the center, providing a lifeline, was a decent strategy for a pincer. incorrect? Incorrect. No such thing as a general "decent strategy for a pincer." This is a huge trap in Go. We must look at the specific board to decide what's our plan, what's our next move, and the move after that, and so on. In your particular situation, running with is not a good idea, as Bill said. (Because was not good to begin with; you picked the smallest gap in the opening -- that's another story. ) So just taking C17 with is better in this case. In some other situations, running could be better (for example, is an entirely different situation); but once again, it depends on the specific board. Go is super specific. (Also super un-forgiving.) This is one thing many beginners don't appreciate until much later.

Author:	EdLee [ Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:
brodie wrote: and with 26, isnt that just a part of staking out some of the side? i realize it makes 11 stronger, but what would have been a better move? One issue here is these are separate questions: Why is bad ? This is one question. What is a better move ? This is a separate, and entirely different question. You first need to see why is bad. Marcel mentioned a few reasons. After B blocks with , W does not have a good local reply -- if W pushes up at L4, B will hane at L5, and if W resists with M5, then B will double hane at M6 -- this is a good local result for B and bad result for W. As Marcel mentioned, B's lower left shape -- , , and -- is not good, and there is a weakness at H3. Your - exchange helps B fix this weakness. This is a second reason is bad. A better move for is a different question, because we need to look at the whole board. Because of your earlier mistakes, there are problems elsewhere (for example, your F15 group is a problem). Finding a better move for is another issue, possibly unrelated to the L3-M3 areas. And learning that is bad is a first (and easier) step.

Author: Uberdude [ Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:31 am ]

Post subject: Re: 14 k bloopers and blunders

EdLee wrote:

brodie wrote:

i had thought that running towards the center, providing a lifeline, was a decent strategy for a pincer. incorrect?

Incorrect.

No such thing as a general "decent strategy for a pincer." This is a huge trap in Go. We must look at the specific board
to decide what's our plan, what's our next move, and the move after that, and so on.

There is however a better general strategy for a pincer which, whilst there will still be exceptions, is a much better general idea that'll probably get you to dan level. And that is:

Quote:

When you are pincered jumping out is a decent idea if and only if it creates 2 good moves for you next, so whichever your opponent defends against you can get the other.

So with a 4-4 and one space low pincer jumping is a joseki (though even then a somewhat special-situation one as taking the corner is normally better) because you create two good things to do next:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c 4-4 one-space low pincer and jump $$ ------------------------ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . 2 . 3 . . . $$ | . . . 1 . . . . b , . $$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . $$ | . . . a . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , .[/go]

After jumping out white can surround the corner or press the pincer stone. They aren't quite miai as the corner is bigger so black will usually defend there at d14 or c14 (unless he is twoeye on KGS) and then white will press the pincer. Note that the pressing move is a large knight's move from the jump which is a reasonably well connected shape (black can cut it leading to a fight, but white has reasonable resources to fight though it helps to have a ladder). As well as press white could counter pincer but that's a rather special strategy that needs big white support on the rest of the board as locally the fighting is easier for black.

The reason jump for white 8 in your game was bad is black already had a stone at k16 which meant you couldn't press at b after jumping out and black defended the corner.

Now let's consider the 2 space low pincer to a 4-4 approach:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c 4-4 two-space low pincer and jump $$ ------------------------ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . 2 . . 3 . . $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . b . $$ | . . . . . 4 . . c . . $$ | . . . a . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , .[/go]

Now with this more distant pincer the jump is not a joseki move because after it white has only one good move/direction next: enclosing the corner at a. B is not a good move because it is too far from :w4:

so easy for black to cut. C has better connectedness, but is rather soft on black as he can just answer at L16 to grow on the 4th line: the power of the press in the last diagram is it pushes black down to the 3rd line which pleases white (though black is satisfied too). Instead of press you can consider a counter pincer but again that is a hard fight for white without support.

The story with the 3 space low pincer is the same, there is no good press so jump is not joseki.

But what about the two space high pincer? Now jump is joseki again (or at least it was, these days this joseki has gone out of fashion as it is considered a bit good for black) because white can slide under the pincer to make a base, which he couldn't with the 3rd line pincer:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c 4-4 two-space high pincer and jump $$ ------------------------ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . 6 . . . . 8 . . $$ | . . 7 . . 2 . . . . . $$ | . . . 1 . . . . 3 , . $$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . $$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , .[/go]

I was planning to cover pincers to approaches to 3-4s but that's a rather bigger topic and I've spent long enough on this post now, but there's a similar idea about having two things to do after jump, though counter pincers are more commonly played as against a 3-4 the approach stone can get some eyes for itself without giving black such a big corner in the process.

Author:	brodie [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 14 k bloopers and blunders
wow. thanks to all of you, that was very informative. 8 and 26 make a lot more sense to me now, and i couldnt have picekd those out of a lineup of bad moves before doing this on my own.

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