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After a long break, I intend to restart playing Go
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Author:  entropi [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:31 am ]
Post subject:  After a long break, I intend to restart playing Go
Could anyone care to comments? I play black and lost the game by about 10 points.

Thanks in advance
Author:  Boidhre [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: After a long break, I intend to restart playing Go
My limited understanding of why you wouldn't play :b5:

1) It's not severe against any approach to the 3-4 point.
2) It's neither an optimal extension from the 4-4 nor does it help the 4-4 that much. If you were extending you'd go one further, if you wanted to protect you'd play closer to the corner.
3) It's on the third line (I won't pretend to understand this part at all), if you wanted to sketch a framework off a 4-4 you'd play on the 4th line, the 3rd line placement is more about building from the 3-4 than the 4-4 and making approaching the 3-4 more painful, so perhaps you'd play on the fourth line if you wanted something working off the 4-4? I don't know.

The normal low Chinese :b5: both protects and threatens to build a large framework. Here, you're just threatening a framework in the top right but not making invading it very painful.

Corrections on thinking very much welcomed. :)
Author:  hyperpape [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: After a long break, I intend to restart playing Go
:b21: feels off--it settles White in exchange for a small life, and there's still room to bully that group later. I wonder about playing C15 and trying to let the lone black stone strengthen itself naturally during fighting.

:b81: - :b85: seem a bit aimless.
Author:  entropi [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: After a long break, I intend to restart playing Go
Boidhre: what you say makes a lot of sense, theoretically. However, practically I still don't know how to punish such a move. Simply by approaching the upper left corner at e17, or just doing nothing and waiting for the bad move to punish itself? How would an approach continue? Would all joseki responses put the L17 stone in a strange position (e.g. overconcentrated)? Or are these questions meaningful at all? :) (you see, one can be quite confused when restarting after a break)
But thanks for the response anyway, I think theoretically it is correct.

hyperpape: I did not think about :b21: like that, but it seems you are right. My aim was preventing white from making a base while at the same time attacking d10. Maybe c11 would be better for that purpose :scratch:
I agree with :b81: - :b85:, it didnt work out as I expected.
Author:  EdLee [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi entropi, welcome back. :) :b15: feels very soft to me; subsequently W settled too easily.
Author:  Boidhre [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: After a long break, I intend to restart playing Go
entropi wrote:
Boidhre: what you say makes a lot of sense, theoretically. However, practically I still don't know how to punish such a move. Simply by approaching the upper left corner at e17, or just doing nothing and waiting for the bad move to punish itself? How would an approach continue? Would all joseki responses put the L17 stone in a strange position (e.g. overconcentrated)? Or are these questions meaningful at all? :) (you see, one can be quite confused when restarting after a break)
But thanks for the response anyway, I think theoretically it is correct.


Do you need to punish? If you stop Black from completing the shimari then that stone looks out of place and isn't doing a whole lot that's useful. Job done.

*shrugs*
Author:  entropi [ Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: After a long break, I intend to restart playing Go
Thanks EdLee. Indeed :b15: does not feel good but I could not come up with something reasonable to attack white there.
Author:  daal [ Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: After a long break, I intend to restart playing Go
How long was your break? Why did you stop? What made you want to start playing again? Does it feel different than it used to? Etc.

Click here to say MYOB: ( ) :)
Author:  Bill Spight [ Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: After a long break, I intend to restart playing Go
A few comments on the opening.

After :b5: misclick at L-17 I would hasten to make an enclosure in the top left corner. Like E-16.

:b15: I would attach at E-15. Divide and conquer. I do not see any reasonable alternative. This is Black's sphere of influence. A fight will get work out of the stones on the sides and tengen.

:b17: My feeling is the solid extension to D-17, strengthening the corner.

:b21: Strengthens White. Globally I would prefer the boshi at E-07. Locally the solid extension to C-15, as hyperpape suggests. The keima at H-15 also looks good, enlarging the Black framework while attacking.

The result to :w26: is to force White to make life. :b27: secures a small group on the side, but you want to strengthen the Black stone there without strengthening White. Hence :b21: at E-07, which also reduces the White framework and gets work out of the tengen stone.

:b29: I would rather pincer the White stone on the right side with Q-07. I have the shoulder blow at K-04 to reduce the bottom side.

:b37: The shoulder blow strengthens the White stone. I prefer to make a base with N-03, after attaching at P-06.

:b39: The extension toward the center is usual, but here I think the block at M-03 to make life is better. The tengen stone already works to reduce White's potential in the center.

:b45: I think that the place to reduce the bottom left moyo is F-05, threatening to invade the side or the corner. The boshi at H-06 also looks good, given the tengen stone. But your actual play is good, too. My inclination would be to extend to R-12. It is only a one space extension, but it threatens to invade the White side or to slide to S-10 or to play a shoulder blow at P-11, enlarging the Black moyo.
Author:  entropi [ Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: After a long break, I intend to restart playing Go
Bill, thanks a lot for the very useful comments.

daal: I stopped beginning of 2012 shortly after my second daughter was born. Mainly due to lack of time, so many other things to do. On top that, I noticed that I was investing too much time in this game which does not bring back enough benefits in other aspects of life. For example, in the evenings before sleeping, instead of reading books as used to, I was feeling obliged to solve tsumego. Somehow improving became too important for me. At one point, I asked myself, why I want to improve. Is it ego, eagerness to better understand pro games, or just because everybody wants to improve. It may sound silly but it's an important question in my opinion. Anyway I could not find a good answer convincing myself. Then keeping in mind that the highest of highest priorities are my children which also require a lot of time, I decide to take a break from Go.

Why I want to restart? I don't know. Maybe I forgot why I stopped :)


It feels a bit different of course, but it will probably be the same feeling as before when I get a bit more involved. Though my intention is never to get obsessed with improvement (or with the game as a whole) again. In fact I am not planning to study at all. I just want to enjoy watching interesting games, reading commentary and eventually playing. That's just the intention of course, we'll see how it develops :)
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